Flag

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bar" data-cid="513720" data-time="1441513580">
<div>
I am for the flag change. But no majority is going to pick one of these over our current flag. 
How were the last 2 flags choosen? Referendum? 
Feel free to continue with you pendatic replies though.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Pedantic? Sheesh... you based your post around the fact you thought it was our first flag!
No referendums were not held for the first 2. The current one was chosen by a designer in Aus. The govt of the day asked him to design a flag.. he went ok... he designed one.... got paid..... the NZ govt went.. alright... then a few years later the Aussies basically copied it byt using the same designer...
 
I think if Key just outsourced the flag to a designer in Aus and then rubber stamped it... the electorate would have a hissy fit,

taniwharugby

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="513650" data-time="1441497726">
<div>
pretty easy to criticise the process, but i dont see any better ideas on how it could have been done (to appease everyone...) being put forward...maybe you change the people selecting, but you will still draw the same criticisms of them from some corners.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
But changing the people selecting to qualified people would make a big difference
 
Its like selecting AB coaches who have never coached a rugby team except maybe a school side for a few weeks when no one knows how the side got on in terms of outcome. Only a fool would do this and yet that's what Key's and Co seem to have done with this flag selection process. With a fairly predictable outcome.

taniwharugby

that is a bollocks analogy! 
 
There are no bloody 'flag pickers' already out there working, or if there are, I need to get in on that gig!

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="513753" data-time="1441525965">
<div>
that is a bollocks analogy! 
 
There are no bloody 'flag pickers' already out there working, or if there are, I need to get in on that gig!
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Is this correct?
 
I think it is based on the final 4 selected (they are poor). And if it is my analogy is a good one. Its like picking a unqualified selection of NZers to pick the AB's. Most who don't know the first thing about rugby but did well at law or farming or an field that has no relevance at all to sport or rugby.
 
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11507494" title="External link">http://www.nzherald....jectid=11507494</a>
 
Quote
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">The lack of any actual designer or graphic artist on the flag panel is annoying in a bang-your-head-on-the-wall sort of way. Don't blame the panel themselves, blame the MPs that selected them. As someone annoyingly wiser than me has pointed out, just imagine a panel tasked to select alternative national anthems without a single musician.
 
</blockquote>

Winger

And looking again at the final 39 there are some good one
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/'>https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/</a>
 
For me the best fern was the Lockwood blue and black like the red and black flag in the final 39 but a darker blue replacing the Red in the top left
 
The Red Peak of course
Huihui but with a black section equal to the red at the bottom
Finding unity (but with the flag attached to the black end)
 
But I'm no designer (although my current job does involve a small aspect of this) but I know what works and what doesn't. And the final 4 are not good

dogmeat

Red Peak loooks good on social media but not so great in TR's post.
 
I really want to change our current colonial hangover but the shortlisted 4 all suck

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="513783" data-time="1441531236">
<div>
Red Peak loooks good on social media but not so great in TR's post.
 
I really want to change our current colonial hangover but the shortlisted 4 all suck
</div>
</blockquote>
So the only way forward if the top 4 stay the same is to vote for the status quo. That's the trouble, if you ask the wrong questions you get the wrong answer

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Smudge" data-cid="513636" data-time="1441494308">
<div>
I know it might be unfashionable to rail against Red Peak, but I think it's shit and doesn't make me think "New Zealand" at all. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
But it will over time. One explanation is provided above. Heres anothe rone
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://rowansimpson.com/2015/09/02/dear-john/'>http://rowansimpson.com/2015/09/02/dear-john/</a>
 
And the colors are right. Black and white are essential with black prominent when the flag is hung. And red and blue should be there as well so it ticks the color box 100%
 
 
But the Key is it looks the part and also fits in well with other world flags. The top 4 don't

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="513783" data-time="1441531236">
<div>
Red Peak loooks good on social media but not so great in TR's post.
 
I really want to change our current colonial hangover but the shortlisted 4 all suck
</div>
</blockquote>
 
The mountain etc post?

dogmeat

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="513791" data-time="1441532034">
<div>
The mountain etc post?
</div>
</blockquote>
huh?

taniwharugby

how the hell is your analogy a good one? Your anaolgy said that those picking the flags was like getting people that knew nothing of rugby to pick the AB;s! 
 
Is there a world class flag picking competition in NZ, and a world wide flag picking competition, of which, we are the current world flag picking champs, with a professional flag picking coaching team?
 
You still havent really said who should be picking them, which I asked oyu about previously, I feel it was a reasonable cross section of people, if this same group picked a flag you liked would you still think they were rubbish amatuer flag pickers?
 
BTW, I dont really like the red peaks one either, that looks like a corporate logo.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="513793" data-time="1441532620">
<div>
huh?
</div>
</blockquote>
your comment "but not so great in TR's post"
 
The one that changes from the red peak flag to a mountain etc

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="513795" data-time="1441532676">
<div>
how the hell is your analogy a good one? Your anaolgy said that those picking the flags was like getting people that knew nothing of rugby to pick the AB;s! 
 
Is there a world class flag picking competition in NZ, and a world wide flag picking competition, of which, we are the current world flag picking champs, with a professional flag picking coaching team?
 
You still havent really said who should be picking them, which I asked oyu about previously, I feel it was a reasonable cross section of people, if this same group picked a flag you liked would you still think they were rubbish amatuer flag pickers?
 
BTW, I dont really like the red peaks one either, that looks like a corporate logo.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Actual designers or graphic artists
 
Rather than ex ABs etc. Like AB coaches have actual rugby coaching experience rather than graphical design experience

taniwharugby

So how do they have a better idea of what NZers want though? What if the best graphic designer in NZ was a German, or French, or American? 
Unless you can't point me to the S15 flag picking comp, fark off with your analogy!

dogmeat

That post but not for symbolism.
 
Its my first opportunity to see it other than a nicely presented airbrushed blowing in the morning breezes piece of artwork.
 
I really like its simplicity and that one side is red/white/black our Maori heritage and the other red/white/blue our British.
 
But in TR's representation it looks a bit meh.

canefan

The more I see the Lockwood design the more I see half of our current flag with a silver fern cut and pasted into a corner. This other flag is simple, bold and a complete departure from the old, as were the flags of SA and Canada (2 relatively recent changed flags). It reflects our Maori and colonial origins and I'm liking it more and more

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="513800" data-time="1441533215">
<div>
That post but not for symbolism.
 
Its my first opportunity to see it other than a nicely presented airbrushed blowing in the morning breezes piece of artwork.
 
I really like its simplicity and that one side is red/white/black our Maori heritage and the other red/white/blue our British.
 
But in TR's representation it looks a bit meh.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
But its comparing a flag on paper (computer screen) to a great picture or photo's
 
So of course it comes off second best. But flags are best outside surrounded by nature or even human creations. And then the red peak looks great
 
<img src="https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/bec618b4cf053091261e3d7813eb1292f80cf379/0_0_3000_1801/master/3000.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=3d8c9e89bdc6377117a188506ab8ddd3" alt="3000.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10">

jegga

Heres the panel, obvious lack of lesbian green voting dolphin midwife but other than that its a decent cross section of people . I'm not sure why it has to be made up of graphic designers but I reckon the ceo of Saatchi and Saatchi would have a decent idea of designs that work as would a flag historian. As TR has pointed out scratch the surface of a lot of peoples objections to the flag and Keys name comes up pretty quickly, it speaks volumes about them that they would waste an opportunity like this to have a childish crack at Key. If the red peak meant so much to them why didn't they start their hash tags etc before the final four were picked? I see Andrew Little has got behind the red peak as well now and the designer says he's never seen so many people get behind a new form of New Zealnd identity. Really ? How often does something like this happen? Oh and he said this from Melbourne where he lives........<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/growing-support-for-red-peak-flag-design-2015090516 '>https://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/growing-support-for-red-peak-flag-design-2015090516 </a>
 
 
Nicky Bell â€“ CEO of Saatchi & Saatchi New Zealand and board director, Auckland 
Peter Chin, CNZM â€“ Former Mayor of Dunedin, director and trustee, Dunedin 
Julie Christie, ONZM â€“ Director of Julie Christie Inc. and board member, Auckland 
Rod Drury â€“ CEO of Xero and technology entrepreneur, Havelock North 
Beatrice Faumuina, ONZM â€“ Olympian, Commonwealth gold medallist, ASB Head of Talent & People Strategy, board member and trustee, Waitakere 
Lt Gen (Rtd) Rhys Jones, CNZM â€“ Former Chief of NZ Defence Force, Wellington 
Stephen Jones â€“ Invercargill Youth Councillor, Invercargill 
Sir Brian Lochore, ONZ, KNZM, OBE â€“ Former All Blacks captain, coach and administrator, Masterton 
Malcolm Mulholland â€“ Academic and flag historian, Palmerston North 
Hana Oâ€™Regan â€“ Academic, Maori Flag Consideration Panel members announcedstudies and te reo Maori, Christchurch

dogmeat

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="513807" data-time="1441533871">
<div>
But its comparing a flag on paper (computer screen) to a great picture or photo's
 
So of course it comes off second best. But flags are best outside surrounded by nature or even human creations. And then the red peak looks great
 
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Yeah but we havent had the opportunity to see the others have an ad agency make-over so the on paper comparison is the only fair one

The Silver Fern

Flag