CWC Final - Black Caps v England
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@canefan said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@MN5 said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@canefan said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@MN5 said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@canefan said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
That was the last chance for many of this group, gutted for them
Guptill and Southee have both fallen off a cliff in terms of form which they may never get back. I think it's safe to say they won't be there next time round.
you'd imagine Rossco will have retired by the next cup but the others are all young enough to have another hoon you'd imagine.
Latham, Nicholls, Kane, Blundell, Mitch, Sodhi, will all be there. Boult is 30, not sure about Henry. Neesh is one injury away from retirement. CWC in India will be tough, the last 2 cups in conditions favoured us more than the subcontinent teams
Or one injury away from being a specialist batsman.
You'd imagine the luck of the Colin's would have well and truly run out by 2023 too now I think about it.
Bad news for Black Caps fans is we are gonna need to find not one but TWO openers given Nicholls will be well and truly ensconced in the number four batting spot in all forms of the game.
Neesh is good enough. And he's already got test 100s to his name. Who knows what type of opening batting the next cup will require. But they have to make room for Blundell and Latham so one has to open
Would be a shame if this occured, Neeshams bowling in this cup has been inspired at times.
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Boundary countback rule. What a load of shite. I would have been quite happy if they based it on win-loss during the tournament, but boundaries. That's just pøø.
But plenty to be proud of. Hopefully the ABs go one better and don't lose due to a dropgoal countback or some shit.
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@mariner4life said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@rotated said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
The NZ team can be very proud, they played great cricket and did not wilt under the pressure and in the last two games added more to the lore of NZ cricket history than other teams did in an entire four year cycle. I juts hope for the Black Caps that in time the absurdity and incredible nature of the result or lack thereof a little easier to swallow
Being a Black Caps supporter is so very very trying.
For sure, it's no fun eating another shit sand-which and being left to celebrate a another great moral victory. But all in all it's a great team to support, they've certainly put NZ cricket in a better spot than it was at the toss, and to see those guys stand up when the pressure was on was great. Couldn't be prouder of this side and I think they did a lot today to shake the soft-underbelly tag that many have put on us.
The most trying aspect for me is that high-stakes games like this are not the norm for this side and over time we may return to a steady diet of games in front of 800 people at University Oval. We do have a big summer coming up with the England tour and Boxing Day/New Year's tests there to focus the mind - so perhaps the good times can keep rolling?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Hopefully the ABs go one better and don't lose due to a dropgoal countback or some shit.
The ABs were going to win 1995 on less red cards in the tournament if Stransky did not slot that drop goal. That would have been hollow too.
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Such a gutting way to not win. I agree that wickets lost are a better metric, the whole point of the game is to score runs while protecting your wicket. Still, both teams knew the rules and it was infuriating to watch the BlackCaps not bat intelligently.
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Two random thoughts/rants:
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That loss would be easier to stomach if the count back rule was "who finished the round robin as the highest ranked team". Boundaries/wickets/"the number of spanners in a sidchrome tool kit" is just annoying...
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There's something jarring about reading press commentary of England being 'deserved winners of the final'. The Cup maybe, but 241 & 15 playing 241 and 15 suggests no standout winners on the day....
I sense I'm going to be (even) grumpier than usual for a very long time...
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@rotated said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@mariner4life said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
well, shit aye.
I'm actually not sure how to feel. We can't even fall back on being beaten by a better side on the day. Because we weren't beaten.
Get my rant in. What fuckwit came up with most boundaries as the 2nd tie-breaker? Effectively England have been handed the cup for having less scoring shots than us? In what way is that a good measurement? Get absolutely fucked. I am not having that. Celebrate you pommy (UN) fucks, we all know it feels hollow.
Two bad pieces of luck in the last couple of overs. But that overthrow 6 is about as unlucky as you can possibly get. Right there you know it is not your day. Fucking hell.
I thought we were 30 runs short, turns out we were one. Imagine if we didn't duck under the last ball of the innings?
This is about where I'm at with it too. Although in a way I feel bad for both sides as England will always have a bit of asterix on the title and the lack of closure will likely torment NZ more than a loss. I'm not entirely sure I would be that much happier if NZ had "won" on an equally ridiculous countback.
The NZ team can be very proud, they played great cricket and did not wilt under the pressure and in the last two games added more to the lore of NZ cricket history than other teams did in an entire four year cycle. I juts hope for the Black Caps that in time the absurdity and incredible nature of the result or lack thereof a little easier to swallow.
On the bright side I look forward to Kane on commentary at the 2039 CWC semi final talking about this game at length...
I have nothing against Morgan, but his post game interview was more an interview of a team that had a conventional win not an outcome that went like that.
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A "loss by 0 runs" was not a cricketing result I'd ever put any thought into until a few hours ago...
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@Donsteppa yes the triumphalism by some of the English press is hard to stomach.
It's a shit way to decide a match. I'm sure I'd feel the same way if the situation was reversed. The rule will quietly be changed before the next CWC. Should have had another Super Over. Plenty of soccer finals decided on penalties but if it's all square after 5 they keep going. They don't award it to the team with the most headers!!!
Not made any easier by an article on cricinfo suggesting overthrow 6 should only have been 5 as the second run shouldn't count because batsmen hadn't crossed when the ball left the fielders hand.
Feel for the Caps. Immense effort. Playing away. Never gave up. Were the marginally better team on the day with everything stacked against them It must hurt so bad..
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I've spent the 4 hours or so thinking we lost by 1 run in the super over, slightly zen that we didn't force the match/tournament to be decided by a horseshit boundary countback. Just realised the truth when talking to someone at work .... Jesus H Christ, what a stupid way to decide the tournament.
I actually had the cricinfo scorecard still open on my phone. So when I woke up, I mentally prepared myself for defeat before the checking to avoid any false hopes.
As my phone was still on the live scorecard, I saw no headlines, just the final score. I thought, "wholly fuck, we've won, 8-down beats all out" scrolled down a bit further to confirm. Stokes man-of-the-match, confused, then I see there is a super over. Ah, OK. Then see the last line of live commentary seeing we were run out 1 short, and something about the boundaries countback, I thought Guptill was 1 metre away from making the tournament a debacle ....., and thought of the 1995 RWC final and by the last five minutes I was ok with NZ losing rather than potting another droppie and winning by the unstatisfying red-card tiebreaker, and how by 16 years later I would have bitten your hand off if you offered be a 1995 RWC win by way of a Dalton red card in pool play ......
What a roller coaster for someone who went to be in the 22nd over of the first innings .....
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@dogmeat said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Donsteppa yes the triumphalism by some of the English press is hard to stomach.
It's a shit way to decide a match. I'm sure I'd feel the same way if the situation was reversed. The rule will quietly be changed before the next CWC. Should have had another Super Over. Plenty of soccer finals decided on penalties but if it's all square after 5 they keep going. They don't award it to the team with the most headers!!!
Not made any easier by an article on cricinfo suggesting overthrow 6 should only have been 5 as the second run shouldn't count because batsmen hadn't crossed when the ball left the fielders hand.
Feel for the Caps. Immense effort. Playing away. Never gave up. Were the marginally better team on the day with everything stacked against them It must hurt so bad..
Moral victory right there.
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I woke up to this?
Oh jesus. Oh well at least we have test cricket to look forward to -- oh fuck that's right the arseholes in charge have decided that T20s are more important - fuck that.
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The English have now benefitted twice from bizarre rules in CWCs. Bastards.
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I hope their rugby team never makes it out of the group in Japan
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"luck is really the only reason Williamson and New Zealand are not world champions right now. Because, if it isn't luck that a little white leather globe no more than nine inches in circumference thrown from the deep midwicket boundary 60 to 70 metres away hits a moving piece of willow that may be no more than 38 inches in length and no more than 4.25 inches wide held by a human being diving to the ground and deflects off it, with enough speed, to an area of the field that is not patrolled by one of 11 men and goes for four, then what really is luck? And if it turns out that it should've been five runs instead of six because one umpire interpreted a rule concerning precisely such acts incorrectly? What is it?"
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cricket has always been an evil fluffybunny of a game
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Warning: sour grapes time:
England did not win this world cup, it was awarded to them. That's my response from now on whenever some fluffybunny says England won the 2019 CWC.
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@SynicBast said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Warning: sour grapes time:
England did not win this world cup, it was awarded to them. That's my response from now on whenever some fluffybunny says England won the 2019 CWC.
Nah, they won.
Best alternative. Another super over (until a clear winnier)
Second best alternative: Higher positioning in the round-robin.
Third best alternative: Winner of the round-robing meeting.There were sensible ways to award England the tournament - if the organisers are not prepared to go to more super overs for TV scheduling reasons.
But it's just like the ICC forgot that the tournament had been re-structured like the 1992 version of everyone plays everyone - so came up with a bizzaare way to break the tie. Which might have made sense if their were pools, (and if you like boundaries and the rest of cricket is the boring bits between fours and sixes).
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@SynicBast said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Warning: sour grapes time:
England did not win this world cup, it was awarded to them. That's my response from now on whenever some fluffybunny says England won the 2019 CWC.
They won the Cricket World Cup but didn't win the Cricket World Cup final. The ultimate pub quiz question.
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The law states: "If the boundary results from an overthrow or from the wilful act of a fielder, the runs scored shall be any runs for penalties awarded to either side, and the allowance for the boundary, and the runs completed by the batsmen, together with the run in progress if they had already crossed at the instant of the throw or act." The crucial clause is the last part. A review of the footage of the incident shows clearly that, at the moment the ball was released by the New Zealand fielder, Martin Guptill, Stokes and his partner, Adil Rashid, had not yet crossed for their second run.
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@junior said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B sadly history will just remember the name engraved on the trophy 😔
We will be failing in our duties as fans if that is the case.
For some reason I can't recall the actual scoreline of the 1981 Benson and Hedges World Series Cup. Did Australia win 3-1?
However, as I dandle my great-grandchildren on my knee, I will surely tell them how the heinous traitor Ben Stokes purposefully swiped an outfield throw to the boundary to rob St. Kane of his rightful victory!
I may feel differently tomorrow, but right now I'm not in the slightest gutted that we're not getting our name engraved on a little Cup. It's the stuff of legends!
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@Chris-B said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@junior said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B sadly history will just remember the name engraved on the trophy 😔
We will be failing in our duties as fans if that is the case.
For some reason I can't recall the actual scoreline of the 1981 Benson and Hedges World Series Cup. Did Australia win 3-1?
However, as I dandle my great-grandchildren on my knee, I will surely tell them how the heinous traitor Ben Stokes purposefully swiped an outfield throw to the boundary to rob St. Kane of his rightful victory!
I may feel differently tomorrow, but right now I'm not in the slightest gutted that we're not getting our name engraved on a little Cup. It's the stuff of legends!
It's a "moral victory" double banger if Stokes deflected the ball and the umpires stuffed up to award an extra run. Move aside Suzie .....
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The fact that STOKES was caught on the rope, that it was STOKES' bat that deflected the ball for the overthrows just makes this shittier. Anyone else in that Pom side but a fucking Kiwi.
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@Rapido said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@SynicBast said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Warning: sour grapes time:
England did not win this world cup, it was awarded to them. That's my response from now on whenever some fluffybunny says England won the 2019 CWC.
Nah, they won.
Best alternative. Another super over (until a clear winnier)
Second best alternative: Higher positioning in the round-robin.
Third best alternative: Winner of the round-robing meeting.There were sensible ways to award England the tournament - if the organisers are not prepared to go to more super overs for TV scheduling reasons.
But it's just like the ICC forgot that the tournament had been re-structured like the 1992 version of everyone plays everyone - so came up with a bizzaare way to break the tie. Which might have made sense if their were pools, (and if you like boundaries and the rest of cricket is the boring bits between fours and sixes).
Actually, I'm going to revise this opinion a bit.
If the purpose of the tie-breaker is to decide a way to separate who was the best in the final rather than who was the best in the tournament, then it should have been by wickets lost (like it used to be).
So after the super-overs are exhausted, then the best way to count-back in the final was by wickets lost.
We woz actually robbed after all.
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I thought I did everything right. I fell asleep on the couch after the first innings. Recorded it and watched it in the morning expecting a win because I slept through it.
I am telling my Great Grandkids that David Warner sprinted on in the super over and bowled the final ball underarm.
Man I am hurting.
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Back to the cricket and a great innings by Stokes - similar role to Dhoni with Buttler playing the Jadeja role but he did it much, much better than Dhoni. And had no problem with the actions of the English players at all, you could tell Stokes was embarrassed by the extra 4 runs being awarded.
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@KiwiPie said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Back to the cricket and a great innings by Stokes - similar role to Dhoni with Buttler playing the Jadeja role but he did it much, much better than Dhoni. And had no problem with the actions of the English players at all, you could tell Stokes was embarrassed by the extra 4 runs being awarded.
This sort of post is not helping our moral victory stance.
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@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@KiwiPie said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Back to the cricket and a great innings by Stokes - similar role to Dhoni with Buttler playing the Jadeja role but he did it much, much better than Dhoni. And had no problem with the actions of the English players at all, you could tell Stokes was embarrassed by the extra 4 runs being awarded.
This sort of post is not helping our moral victory stance.
Burn the heretic!
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@mariner4life said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@KiwiPie said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Back to the cricket and a great innings by Stokes - similar role to Dhoni with Buttler playing the Jadeja role but he did it much, much better than Dhoni. And had no problem with the actions of the English players at all, you could tell Stokes was embarrassed by the extra 4 runs being awarded.
This sort of post is not helping our moral victory stance.
Burn the heretic!
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England probably should have taken the game away from us. It is ironic that they won because of more boundaries scored. It was relying on boundaries which was their problem. Stokes showed limitations as a batsman in that he couldn't rotate the strike. Root also got out because he just couldn't get enough singles and got frustrated. Credit to all our bowlers but especially Neesham and CDG.
I don't have a huge problem with how the game ended. If it is tied on the day, you should go back to who did better throughout the tournament. That is England. So the right winner in the end.
Luck did seem to go against us. Then again both Ferguson and Southee only just made catches. In some ways they were lucky to take those. So it depends how you look at it. Overall, we were fortunate to be in the semis.
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@Stockcar86 said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
The law states: "If the boundary results from an overthrow or from the wilful act of a fielder, the runs scored shall be any runs for penalties awarded to either side, and the allowance for the boundary, and the runs completed by the batsmen, together with the run in progress if they had already crossed at the instant of the throw or act." The crucial clause is the last part. A review of the footage of the incident shows clearly that, at the moment the ball was released by the New Zealand fielder, Martin Guptill, Stokes and his partner, Adil Rashid, had not yet crossed for their second run.
ah good, can we appeal?
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I would’ve loved a bowl off as a second over decider. Pick 6 bowlers to step up to the mark and see how many hit the stumps.
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Maybe the ultimate tie-breaker is how many home-grown players in each team.
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@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
I would’ve loved a bowl off as a second over decider. Pick 6 bowlers to step up to the mark and see how many hit the stumps.
with a bonus for middle stump
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@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
I would’ve loved a bowl off as a second over decider. Pick 6 bowlers to step up to the mark and see how many hit the stumps.
Problem with this is it will often end up and 1-1 or 0-0 etc.
But it is pretty cool. -
Enough of these finals. Simply get all the score books from all the games.
Count up the boundaries and there's your world champions for the next 4 years. I mean boundaries are the most important thing right?
No more upsetting broadcasters when we run over time
Simples
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@hydro11 said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
England probably should have taken the game away from us. It is ironic that they won because of more boundaries scored. It was relying on boundaries which was their problem. Stokes showed limitations as a batsman in that he couldn't rotate the strike. Root also got out because he just couldn't get enough singles and got frustrated. Credit to all our bowlers but especially Neesham and CDG.
I don't have a huge problem with how the game ended. If it is tied on the day, you should go back to who did better throughout the tournament. That is England. So the right winner in the end.
Luck did seem to go against us. Then again both Ferguson and Southee only just made catches. In some ways they were lucky to take those. So it depends how you look at it. Overall, we were fortunate to be in the semis.
See I have an issue with the ‘who did better in the tournament’ position. Don’t have finals if you want to reward tournament play.
In a final it shouldn’t matter how you got there, it’s just that you get there and are in with a starters chance.
It should come down to what happens in the game.
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I've had to try to explain to several people who don't have a huge grasp of the subtleties of cricket, quite how England won and we didn't. I'd imagine others have the same challenge and I came across this helpful video that really boils it down to simple principles.
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@SynicBast said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
Warning: sour grapes time:
England did not win this world cup, it was awarded to them. That's my response from now on whenever some fluffybunny says England won the 2019 CWC.
That will be my stance today at work.
To be honest, calling it work today is prob not an accurate reflection.
I don’t even remember going to bed.
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@Rapido said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
I would’ve loved a bowl off as a second over decider. Pick 6 bowlers to step up to the mark and see how many hit the stumps.
Problem with this is it will often end up and 1-1 or 0-0 etc.
But it is pretty cool.Then just keep going as sudden death. Theatre! But not stumps though, just a single stump.
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