Chiefs 2019
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@Crucial said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2019:
Really surprised there isn’t much more comment on Gatlands return.
For one it is obvious that Coops was shunted aside to make the deal happen.
Secondly I have a concern that Gats has been away from the NZ game for too long. Sure he will add some new stuff in but part of the overall AB strength is a consistency through grades and levels. I don’t really see him adding any innovative stuff to our game.
The messy year in/year out/back again situation. Would hope he has some strong assistants lined up to make this work. Even then it is disruptive.
Is this the end of the Chiefs setup as created by Rennie and continued by Cooper? I don’t really see Garland in the same vein.what? no, actually, what?
The strength of NZ rugby is the continued production line of shit coaches that we have at Super level? Of which Cooper is one given the Chiefs play for the vast majority of the year. We get a guy back with a plethora of experience in different environments, and success to back that up, and it's a bad thing? Really?
I’m just raising some of the things that came to mind.
Name me a coach that has entered nz rugby after that long overseas and done well? It’s a fair question
Coming for a year, fucking off, coming back again. You’re happy with that?I’m not unhappy about his appointment just surprised that the general tone seems to be ”cool, whatever”
Because cooper was shit. And the other alternatives are not much better.
Henry and Hanson instantly spring to mind. Who are the coaches you think we should be looking to for comparison?
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Gatland is a fookin good coach, his record speaks for itself. He's a bit of a knob, but he will be something that will spur some change in NZR set ups. He won't just let it be/toe the party line. He's got too much experience and self-belief. I don't care if he's a bit crap for the chiefs, but I think he'll be good for NZR - making people uncomfortable and on their toes. Same as having someone pushing for your place in starting 15, having someone like Gatland around is going to be good for NZ rugby overall. I was dead set against him replacing Hansen, but a 4 ish year tenure here in SR I'm happy with.
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@Machpants said in Chiefs 2019:
Gatland is a fookin good coach, his record speaks for itself. He's a bit of a knob, but he will be something that will spur some change in NZR set ups. He won't just let it be/toe the party line. He's got too much experience and self-belief. I don't care if he's a bit crap for the chiefs, but I think he'll be good for NZR - making people uncomfortable and on their toes. Same as having someone pushing for your place in starting 15, having someone like Gatland around is going to be good for NZ rugby overall. I was dead set against him replacing Hansen, but a 4 ish year tenure here in SR I'm happy with.
That's more the type of comment I was expecting to read this morning. As I said just surprised that the reaction was so muted.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2019:
Really surprised there isn’t much more comment on Gatlands return.
For one it is obvious that Coops was shunted aside to make the deal happen.
Secondly I have a concern that Gats has been away from the NZ game for too long. Sure he will add some new stuff in but part of the overall AB strength is a consistency through grades and levels. I don’t really see him adding any innovative stuff to our game.
The messy year in/year out/back again situation. Would hope he has some strong assistants lined up to make this work. Even then it is disruptive.
Is this the end of the Chiefs setup as created by Rennie and continued by Cooper? I don’t really see Garland in the same vein.what? no, actually, what?
The strength of NZ rugby is the continued production line of shit coaches that we have at Super level? Of which Cooper is one given the Chiefs play for the vast majority of the year. We get a guy back with a plethora of experience in different environments, and success to back that up, and it's a bad thing? Really?
I’m just raising some of the things that came to mind.
Name me a coach that has entered nz rugby after that long overseas and done well? It’s a fair question
Coming for a year, fucking off, coming back again. You’re happy with that?I’m not unhappy about his appointment just surprised that the general tone seems to be ”cool, whatever”
Because cooper was shit. And the other alternatives are not much better.
Henry and Hanson instantly spring to mind. Who are the coaches you think we should be looking to for comparison?
Hansen was only away 2 years and Henry 4. Gatland has coached in NZ for 3 out of 25 years! Big diff.
I was mainly referring to the likes of Nucifora who really struggled (although tbf any coach struggles at the Bloos)
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@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs 2019:
@Crucial Nucifora is a weird example. He got the Blues to a 4th place finish in 2007 and he had a fair bit of baggage coming in (player revolt at Brumbies).
True. But that is kind of my point. We are very used to exporting coaches but not (successfully) importing them. Gatland may have a kiwi passport but by far his coaching experience is from other countries in other cultures. You can't tell me that the Chiefs culture is anything like that of Wales. People are different and require different handling. That took Gats years to get right while Henry and Hansen never did. Other kiwi coaches have also failed miserably in this key aspect.
As I said, hopefully the positives as pointed out will out weigh these concerns (or the concerns won't come to fruition) but it's quite reasonable to raise them.
Luckily Gats does regularly return to NZ so the overall cultural changes of the last 25 years won't be such a shock. -
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2019:
Gatland may have a kiwi passport but by far his coaching experience is from other countries in other cultures.
I see that as a positive. Coaching can be too homogeneous in NZ rugby. Cron's scrummaging ethos is a good example.
Jono Gibbes had been away from NZ for 10+ years but didn't have any problems fitting straight back in when he coached Waikato last year.
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@Machpants Well I bloody care if he is crap for the Chiefs! He can't come home to coach my Chiefs and think everyone will bow to his way of thinking. Yes he has the experience, sure he has the runs on the board in the NH - but where do his loyalties lie? Is he back to coach the Chiefs as it;s his home province and he shares a strong bond with his people - or is he really waiting for the ABs gig, and Chiefs coaching be damned....
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@Jailbreak7 surely if he's shit at the Chiefs, he's got no show of an AB gig?
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@Bones Im just suspicious of his motives and that his appointment was kept under wraps, when the Chiefs board would have been fully aware of what was going on for a while. Why were others not considerd? It smacks a little of a done deal.
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@Jailbreak7 said in Chiefs 2019:
@Bones Im just suspicious of his motives and that his appointment was kept under wraps, when the Chiefs board would have been fully aware of what was going on for a while. Why were others not considerd? It smacks a little of a done deal.
Who else should have been considered?
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@Bones No shortage of contenders....what about Pat Lam - he;s also been doing well over here, Vern Cotter, Rob Penney, or even Ronan O'Gara (yes I know he;s picked up a gig in France) but I think it would have been interesting to have had him in the mix. What about persuading Wayne Smith out of retirement - or probably a bit too early for these 2 - but I wouldn;t mind seeing a pairing of Carlos Spencer and Roger Randle.
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@Jailbreak7 well considered answer! I can't see any of those blokes being contenders ahead of Gatland though.
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I don't like the idea of recycling coaches so would have no interest in Lam. I'm also happy that the Chiefs have picked within the region, and Cotter was the only other coach in that category. He seems settled at Montpellier.
@Jailbreak7 I wouldn't be surprised if Randle is still involved under Gatland.
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I like the way the Saders and their fish heads always think outside the box. They always seem the most progressive to me., and it spills over into their players coaches, back room staff etc. No-one else would have entertained the idea of O'Gara I;ll wager, but he has been very good for the team. shame to see him go.
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@Jailbreak7
No disrespect to O'Gara who seems to have made a positive contribution but he joined a winning team and is now off to France and possibly elsewhere with NZ rugby IP. Whereas Gats is a hometown hero who will bring his vast experience back into NZ rugby. -
Hard to really gauge the contribution of O'Gara. He certainly hasn't wet the bed and has at least maintained standards. But he was really serving an apprenticeship.
I have read though that he did bring a few NH defensive systems south with him though.
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@Jailbreak7 said in Chiefs 2019:
I like the way the Saders and their fish heads always think outside the box. They always seem the most progressive to me., and it spills over into their players coaches, back room staff etc. No-one else would have entertained the idea of O'Gara I;ll wager, but he has been very good for the team. shame to see him go.
Well that's plainly not always true, there was nothing progressive about the Blackadder era and the proliferation of ex player coaches have been ultra bog standard aside from Robertson (who actually worked his way up from grassroots).
