CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan

nzzp

@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

all but qualified,

That's all I'm reading at the moment.

There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.

Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.

Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievement

Disagree.

Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.

Come on you Black Caps

Disagree. Given the quality of our side, the quality of the other sides, and how the tournament is playing out, to miss the semis is a fail. On the flip side, to make the final would be a massive success.

Dude, lower your standards

Seriously, I think we're not as good as the top 3 in the game; fourth at best. Then we're in the wash with SA, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (and arguably a motivated Windies). We haven't disgraced ourselves, but ultimately getting to the semis will depend on some results potentially going our way. Before the tournament I thought we'd be a starters chance only against the big three, and nothing I've seen has changed my view.

Therefore, if we get there it's a bonus; but if we miss out it's not a disaster - just that we didn't quite get results falling our way, and didn't play as well as we could in some games.

Paekakboyz

We've got Boult, Kane, Ross and Guppy firmly in a top level of talent. But it's our next couple of levels that mean we aren't a top 3 team imo. I do think we are closer to top three than the tier of teams below that (SA, Pakistan). But we are so dependent on our B-C level guys to contribute when we come up against the top 3 teams. Our big guns carry us a lot but they do need help from time to time.

mariner4life

@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

all but qualified,

That's all I'm reading at the moment.

There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.

Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.

Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievement

Disagree.

Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.

Come on you Black Caps

Disagree. Given the quality of our side, the quality of the other sides, and how the tournament is playing out, to miss the semis is a fail. On the flip side, to make the final would be a massive success.

Dude, lower your standards

Seriously, I think we're not as good as the top 3 in the game; fourth at best. Then we're in the wash with SA, Pakistan and Sri Lanka (and arguably a motivated Windies). We haven't disgraced ourselves, but ultimately getting to the semis will depend on some results potentially going our way. Before the tournament I thought we'd be a starters chance only against the big three, and nothing I've seen has changed my view.

Therefore, if we get there it's a bonus; but if we miss out it's not a disaster - just that we didn't quite get results falling our way, and didn't play as well as we could in some games.

no, i have followed this side closely for a long time, my standards are appropriate.

We are better than SA, the Windies, and SL, and thus we beat all of those teams. We are in a fight with Pakistan to make it in to 4th, i will be very disappointed if they miss it.

The cricketing world saw the Pakistan result as an upset, i do to.

Bovidae

England needs to beat India, otherwise they can't overtake us before we play eachother.

Paekakboyz

@Bovidae said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

England needs to beat India, otherwise they can't overtake us before we play eachother.

@MN5 re your post in the other thread.

mariner4life

@Paekakboyz said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

We've got Boult, Kane, Ross and Guppy firmly in a top level of talent. But it's our next couple of levels that mean we aren't a top 3 team imo. I do think we are closer to top three than the tier of teams below that (SA, Pakistan). But we are so dependent on our B-C level guys to contribute when we come up against the top 3 teams. Our big guns carry us a lot but they do need help from time to time.

Absolutely this. Just because Guptill and Boult are under-performing is not a free pass to the side to just miss the finals.

Yes, we have a massive hole at 2, and 5, and are a death bowler light. That's why we are not close to tournament favourites. But the fact is, players are under-performing. That should not be excused.

MN5

@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@Paekakboyz said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

We've got Boult, Kane, Ross and Guppy firmly in a top level of talent. But it's our next couple of levels that mean we aren't a top 3 team imo. I do think we are closer to top three than the tier of teams below that (SA, Pakistan). But we are so dependent on our B-C level guys to contribute when we come up against the top 3 teams. Our big guns carry us a lot but they do need help from time to time.

Absolutely this. Just because Guptill and Boult are under-performing is not a free pass to the side to just miss the finals.

Yes, we have a massive hole at 2, and 5, and are a death bowler light. That's why we are not close to tournament favourites. But the fact is, players are under-performing. That should not be excused.

Thank fuck our captain is leading from the front like he is.

ACT Crusader

I think most punters and “experts” would’ve had us making the semis.

Some may not have and that’s probably fair too because these tournaments can be unpredictable in terms of varied results and upsets.

I think most would’ve had England and India as definite semi finalists.

OZ were a bit of an unknown given all that has happened and variable form. Most wouldn’t have bet against them not making the semis but there were question marks.

Then throw in Pakistan, SL and Windies as possibles but not probables.

All in all NZs position was strong to make it.

Snowy

With 2 of the top ranked batsmen, the 2nd best bowler and Ferguson stepping up as one of the tournaments leading wicket takers, as well as 2 or 3 very effective all rounders, we really should be a chance against any team. We just have a few out of form passengers that we could have played into form but haven't. One of whom is in a critical position that sets the whole batting innings back when we have to consolidate.

rotated

@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

Semis are par.

This is right. Heading into the tournament in most scenarios for NZ to miss the semis they either would have needed to drop a game to the bottom three teams (SL, Bangladesh, Afghanistan) or got swept by the other mid-tier teams. In either case they would have had only themselves to blame.

Making the semis is mostly an exercise in keeping everything together as England are finding out and we very well could have against the Bangles, SA and Windies.

rotated

@Snowy said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

With 2 of the top ranked batsmen, the 2nd best bowler and Ferguson stepping up as one of the tournaments leading wicket takers, as well as 2 or 3 very effective all rounders, we really should be a chance against any team.

Despite this I was struck against Pakistan in how few batsman vs bowler scenarios in either innings I felt we had the better player. Looking forward to potential finalists you can't expect that to change if we expect Henry/Santner to shoulder 20 overs collectively and India/Aus have multiple strike bowlers they can throw at our middle order.

If you were England/India/Aus would you rather play NZ in the semis or that Pakistan team? Pretty obvious for me.

Snowy

@rotated Vagaries of cricket I guess. Pitches, winning the toss, can have a significant impact as well as one stand out performance.
I didn't expect Santner to turn it as much as he did against Pakistan for example. He is unlikely to ever take many wickets but serves a purpose in the middle overs.

As for the player match ups I thought that we we had their equal in most cases once our openers were predictably gone.

Don't think that there would be much in it for me choosing us or Pakistan. You are more likely to end up in an arm wrestle with us I think, where pressure comes into it. Who knows with Pakistan? If we could have got into the lower order...

booboo

@mariner4life said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@nzzp said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@booboo said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

@Siam said in CWC Game #7 Black Caps v Pakistan:

all but qualified,

That's all I'm reading at the moment.

There are too many really plausible ways we miss out still.

Consider me half empty until we're 100% confirmed in the Semis.

Semis are par.
Anything less = abject failure
Anything more = massive over achievement

Disagree.

Semis is a win for me; we're at least at par for this tournament based on how we've performed. Any wins at knockout stage is an overachievement for me.

Come on you Black Caps

Disagree. Given the quality of our side, the quality of the other sides, and how the tournament is playing out, to miss the semis is a fail. On the flip side, to make the final would be a massive success.