Aussie Cricket
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@booboo nice reply mate and I see where you're coming from, but I haven't seen that scenario much since we were both kids.
Enforcing a Follow on really only serves to speed up your result, if all goes to plan, but that's a given consideration.
I actually think one reason not to enforce FO is simply to avoid the possibility of batting on day 5. Bossing the game then orchestrating the possibility of batting last instead of 3rd is a gamble of losing rather than ensuring a draw at least by batting again. Not even worth the risk IMO, with the only reward being a quicker win.
Batting last is not a fail safe position. You save your position in the game long before that, if playing safe is a consideration
Historically the follow on innings is far more productive and determined than the poor innings that preceded it. VVS might shape your memory but being rolled twice by Waqar and Wasim shapes mine and the gulf between batters and bowlers doesn't happen like that so much anymore.
I'm not buying for one second the notion that an under fire Aussie team at 1 all in a series in Melbourne that the batsmen are scared of any bowler. Nonsense.
Another factor, with a comfortable lead is to do what the opposition dont want you to do.
After 170 overs in the field then only 66 in the shed, there is no way that Aus wants to field again. They'd be delighted to have a bat to try to get something from the game on a day 3 pitch. They'd much prefer to bat again than go out and hope for a miracle bowling spell where top 3 wickets are got from leg side deliveries.Actually Aus did better than expected (5-54), yet still got shut out of the game, so India remain on top despite the most dramatic 2 hour Aus performance of the series.
And all the while your team is resting jovially (300+ lead is match winning) while the opposition is bowling again, with no chance of a win. perfect situation.
Kohli has spent the whole test tiring the Aussies out. Shastri mentioned it on day 2 and the surprise declaration was to unsettle Aus. By not enforcing the follow on he continues to make life uncomfortable for them.
But mostly you don't flog your bowlers in 40 degrees after they'd done so brilliantly and a draw wraps up the trophy and best result in Aus.
Apart from speeding the win up ( unnecessarily here imo, but maybe weather in another instance), what use is a follow on?
Why risk losing?
And don't parrot some shit about psychological advantage because that's over emphasised bollocks with highly paid pros playing for their reputations 😀
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I'll accept there are arguments in favour of NOFO.
But you ask the question "why risk losing?"
I think they've risked losing by falling in a batting heap. IMO That's more likely to happen than a batting masterclass starting at minus-200 more wresting the game away from you.
But that may be because as a blackcaps fan a collapse is always imminent ....
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@booboo cool.
It's funny with test cricket as a 4th innings chase is the ultimate spectating. Everytime your team chases you feel confident they'll pull together a nice 250-320, just like other innings'. I mean, 250 that's not lots eh?
Then you see the dire list of successful run chases and the paltry totals that won and you're reminded that batting last sucks for any target pretty much under 180 runs.
India had this game sussed wwith that 292 lead and their bowlers were great!
Only caught highlights but the pitch didn't seem to get the top order out. More a gulf in bowling consistency, wrist positioning, and technically inferior batsmen.
I wondered how India would combat the buoyant Aussie momentum after Perth and yesterday was their emphatic answer.
Cummins well earned 4 for notwithstanding this has been a notably one sided game
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@rotated said in Aussie Cricket:
@Siam said in Aussie Cricket:
We need some follow on stats from the last 40 years to assess the fruition and prevalence of such decisions.
Not the last 40 years but this has a lot of before and after VVS analysis.
Interesting analysis. I can see more wisdom in not enforcing than I could before.
This particular decision looks right to me. Tire the Aussie bowlers and force them to bat last.
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Finch is shit
They should make changes to the batting lineup for the SCG match. I doubt they will though
Cummins finishes with 27/6. He's putting together a decent record: Test Bowling summary
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Bumrah gets Shaun Marsh. That’s 19 for the series at 13.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Aussie Cricket:
Bumrah gets Shaun Marsh. That’s 19 for the series at 13.
Post-WWII only two players have played more innings for Australia in the top 6 and averaged less... one is his old man.
Honestly thought this guy would play 100 tests @ 45 at very least when he first came into the ODI team.
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If I was to pick a combined Australia-New Zealand test team, I would probably pick the whole Australian bowling attack. I think Boult is a better test bowler than Starc but Starc's batting would probably get him in the team.
The problem for Australia, and this has been an issue for a long time, they just can't produce any bloody batsmen. They used to be carried by Ponting, Clarke and Hussey. Then it was Smith and Warner. Some other good players have popped up like Rogers and Voges but thy haven't stuck around.
Australia has lost their two best batsmen and one of their most promising. Their best batsman, and probably the only one of test quality is Khawaja. Yet he only averages 30 away from home. I would probably pick Khawaja at six or to open in a combined New Zealand/Australian team but otherwise I would take our whole top 7. You couldn't say that too often.
I just don't see why Australia can't produce any test quality batsmen given that they used to churn them out. I do note that the Big Bash is taking up the biggest chunk of their summer. I think some players see more of a career in that. If you are a New Zealander and you want to get noticed, your best bet is still to excel in international cricket. Having said that, if one of our top guys go down we are probably back to Brownlie.
It's a shame we aren't playing them this year because I think we would beat them in a three match series, home or away. When we play them next year Smith and Bancroft will be back (probably not Warner though) and I think they will be favourites.
I think Australia should have taken the absence of their top players to blood some more new ones. They have done this with Head but also picked the Marshes and Finch. None of those are long term test players, so why pick them? I think the idea is that they want experience in there but it seems a waste of a year's cricket.
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@hydro11 said in Aussie Cricket:
I just don't see why Australia can't produce any test quality batsmen given that they used to churn them out.
It's not as simple as just T20, but it's mostly T20. Aussies have a similar appeal overseas as ABs do in Europe. When you have uncapped guys like Moises Henriques scoring big IPL contracts in 2009 (and obviously many more since - but that was the start of the rot that got us here now) unless you have a particular fetish for test cricket why would you toil away in Sheffield Shield for years as a batsman outside the test team to fashion yourself as a test batsmen when you could get quick bucks on the T20 scene with a modicum of batting ability.
Australia no longer have players the quality of Lehmann, Katich, Love, Hodge, Maher etc who were content just to wait their turn playing four day cricket - Voges was the last and they flushed him.
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Aussie can't blame the conditions for their wickets. Just a gallery of shit shots and bad technique
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Cummins proving what a waste of a spot mitch marsh is
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Cricket:
Aussie can't blame the conditions for their wickets. Just a gallery of shit shots and bad technique
Cummins showing the Aussie top order is either bereft of technical proficiency or mental strength.
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This must be the worst Australian top order that I can think of since I started watching cricket in the mid 80’s. Even that mud version had an Alan Border in the mix.
Steve Smith and David Warner will be welcomed back with open arms.
Impressive game from Cummins.
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@Donsteppa I really don't think David Warner will be "welcomed" back anywhere.
If they take Bancroft, how would you fancy him and Warner in the same team?
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@Chester-Draws said in Aussie Cricket:
@Donsteppa I really don't think David Warner will be "welcomed" back anywhere.
If they take Bancroft, how would you fancy him and Warner in the same team?
Watching their running between the wickets together would be worth the price of admission.
I think they'll welcome him back if the team aren't scoring many runs, M Marsh having already been booed at the MCG being a sign of interesting times...
