NZ All Time XI
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@cyclops said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
Watling has a strong claim to the keeper's spot but with the top order we've got, it's hard to look past what Baz can offer coming out at 300/4 (or 5 if we have an all-rounder to bat 6).
As a bat-first keeper Watling is in the clubhouse with a four stroke lead at this point.
The only argument is if this side were to actually play games (presumably against other nations best XIs) given we don't have a wicket taking spinner, it's probably best to select the best outright keeper in which case it would be Smith.
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Flem's not even close, a shit average, and a conversion rate about the same as that American bloke who went to that island in India the other week.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
Flem's not even close, a shit average, and a conversion rate about the same as that American bloke who went to that island in India the other week.
Ouch!!
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@rotated I don't think Flem, Congdon, Jones or Rig were ever more than footnotes in a discussion.
On their limited records and from period reports Donnelly and Dempster have to be considered ahead of Taylor but eventually discarded because of the lack of evidence despite the strong suspicion that they would be at least his equal.
When Flem retired he had a claim to be number 2 to Crowe. I can remember plenty of discussions about whether he would have been our best ever if he hadn't had so many issues in the nineties (runs not the decade). Of course those conversations are now long forgotten and even laughable as Kane and Taylor have sailed past him and even Baz would have claim to be ahead. Even his vaunted captaincy, while still brilliant, doesn't shine as bright since Baz and Kane have both proven themselves to be able and capable captains.
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@rotated I don't think Flem, Congdon, Jones or Rig were ever more than footnotes in a discussion.
Before Williamson and Taylor were candidates (~2013ish?) pretty much every all time test XI would have had at least one of those surely? If not only because Rig is the best pure opener we have but Flem/Sutcliffe/Turner can all be legitimately played there in an all time team.
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
Turner
Dempster/Sutcliffe
Kane
Crowe
Taylor
Baz
Cairns
Hadlee
Vettori
Bond
Boult/Cowieyou have the advantage over most of us, having watched nearly every test match NZ has ever played...
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@rotated said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@rotated I don't think Flem, Congdon, Jones or Rig were ever more than footnotes in a discussion.
Before Williamson and Taylor were candidates (~2013ish?) pretty much every all time test XI would have had at least one of those surely? If not only because Rig is the best pure opener we have but Flem/Sutcliffe/Turner can all be legitimately played there in an all time team.
yeah nah
In 2009 a cricinfo panel chose the best ever NZ XI None of your candidates got a look in
A team from all seasons
Two men from the current team, two from before the war, and many disagreements with readers, in New Zealand's all-time XI selection
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
yeah nah
In 2009 a cricinfo panel chose the best ever NZ XI None of your candidates got a look in
A team from all seasons
Two men from the current team, two from before the war, and many disagreements with readers, in New Zealand's all-time XI selection
All of whom were mentioned here in an actual discussion of potential candidates here...
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@virgil said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
If your picking all time XI full of batsmen who could effortlessly race to 50 before lazily hoisting a shot directly to the cover fieldsman on 56 then Flems your guy
Assuming he is selected as an opener that would make him our best ever by a country mile.
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@mariner4life You're not that far wrong. NZ played 50 tests before I was born - winning one.
Everyone has been going on in the last week about 50 years since we won away against Pakistan, but what hasn't been mentioned is that 1969 win gave NZ their first ever series win - home or away. We've won 13 series in the last 10 years. It took us till 1993 to win our 13th series ever!
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As good as Taylor’s record is I’ve never felt comfortable when he has come to the crease. Unlike Kane or Crowe or even Jones, where I expected that they would get runs, Taylor is a guy that I’ve felt would get out the next ball....
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@act-crusader yeah Kane and Crowe are most un-Black caps like in their ability to settle to the task immediately.
Taylor plays far too loose at the beginning of almost every innings. Must be a mental thing.
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@act-crusader yeah Kane and Crowe are most un-Black caps like in their ability to settle to the task immediately.
McCullum was that way too. I often had no idea what test match he was trying to play his innings in but you knew it wasn't for the Black Caps and it must have been a good one.
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@act-crusader said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
As good as Taylor’s record is I’ve never felt comfortable when he has come to the crease. Unlike Kane or Crowe or even Jones, where I expected that they would get runs, Taylor is a guy that I’ve felt would get out the next ball....
Taylor is just a bit inconsistent. Some innings I've seen him play he looked in total control from start to finish. Others he really scratches around, but is good enough to survive long enough to put some runs on the board. Kane is super consistent in his approach, always looks in control, hence his superior record.
I really wouldn't understate just how good Taylor is though. He gets maligned on here are lot given he's one of our best ever players.
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@no-quarter because we've looked to him to pull our chestnuts outta the fire so often!! Or when we've been doing ok we are hoping he'll kick us into game winning territory.
Kane is single-handedly putting us in a position to win matches or avoid loses. I wonder if Ross is going back to some early career indecision about playing safe or aggressively. Remembering this is a guy that has just got his vision sorted again, no idea how he played as well as he did with that eye issue!!
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@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@rotated said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@rotated I don't think Flem, Congdon, Jones or Rig were ever more than footnotes in a discussion.
Before Williamson and Taylor were candidates (~2013ish?) pretty much every all time test XI would have had at least one of those surely? If not only because Rig is the best pure opener we have but Flem/Sutcliffe/Turner can all be legitimately played there in an all time team.
yeah nah
In 2009 a cricinfo panel chose the best ever NZ XI None of your candidates got a look in
A team from all seasons
Two men from the current team, two from before the war, and many disagreements with readers, in New Zealand's all-time XI selection
That is an excellent selection.
Little Kane now comes in to bat at three, and Rossco is pushing hard at Donnelly or John Reid (I'm not sure what to do with Bert - he's also pushing for a spot lower down - as well as an opener's berth) if we would go in with just four bowlers.
Boult can wait for now.
The other change I'd now make is Baz for Ian Smith, which will upset @rotated among others.
But, have a look at the list of highest scores by NZers and Baz features near the top more often than anyone - more than Kane, more than Crowe. He's got half a dozen big scores, including the biggest, plus at least three double hundreds.
Turner, Dempster, Williamson, Crowe, Donnelly, Reid, McCullum, Vettori, Hadlee, Bond, Cowie.
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@chris-b said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@rotated said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@dogmeat said in Cricket - NZ vs Pakistan:
@rotated I don't think Flem, Congdon, Jones or Rig were ever more than footnotes in a discussion.
Before Williamson and Taylor were candidates (~2013ish?) pretty much every all time test XI would have had at least one of those surely? If not only because Rig is the best pure opener we have but Flem/Sutcliffe/Turner can all be legitimately played there in an all time team.
yeah nah
In 2009 a cricinfo panel chose the best ever NZ XI None of your candidates got a look in
A team from all seasons
Two men from the current team, two from before the war, and many disagreements with readers, in New Zealand's all-time XI selection
That is an excellent selection.
Little Kane now comes in to bat at three, and Rossco is pushing hard at Donnelly or John Reid (I'm not sure what to do with Bert - he's also pushing for a spot lower down - as well as an opener's berth) if we would go in with just four bowlers.
Boult can wait for now.
The other change I'd now make is Baz for Ian Smith, which will upset @rotated among others.
But, have a look at the list of highest scores by NZers and Baz features near the top more often than anyone - more than Kane, more than Crowe. He's got half a dozen big scores, including the biggest, plus at least three double hundreds.
Turner, Dempster, Williamson, Crowe, Donnelly, Reid, McCullum, Vettori, Hadlee, Bond, Cowie.
Cairns over Reid for me. Like him or not his test record is too good to leave him out.
