Exodus
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@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@bovidae said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum 6 by my count, but still low.
Treviso - Budd, Hayward, Faiva, Manu
Zebre - Renton, TuivaitiYou're right - I put the wrong number into the Italy column instead of NZ for Tuivaiti..
I wonder if your Tongans and Samoans in the 'SH-born professional players in 52 European clubs' actually includes NZers? (Clearly I can't handle SA being ahead of us!)
Does Italy only have two professional clubs now or only two that play in the whatever the European cup comp is called now?
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@nepia said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@bovidae said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum 6 by my count, but still low.
Treviso - Budd, Hayward, Faiva, Manu
Zebre - Renton, TuivaitiYou're right - I put the wrong number into the Italy column instead of NZ for Tuivaiti..
I wonder if your Tongans and Samoans in the 'SH-born professional players in 52 European clubs' actually includes NZers? (Clearly I can't handle SA being ahead of us!)
Does Italy only have two professional clubs now or only two that play in the whatever the European cup comp is called now?
I checked as carefully as I could on each player - a number of them were registered with the NZ union, but their birthplace was Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, etc. Equally, I checked players with the various PI flags and a good number of them were born in NZ and put them into NZ column.
As far as I'm aware, Benetton and Zebre are the only two professional clubs that play in the PRO14 Championship, along with Ireland, Wales, Scotland and South Africa. If one or both of them finish in the top 7 they qualify for the Heineken Champions Cup. If lower, they go into the Challenge Cup.
The Top 12 in Italy is semi-professional as far as I'm aware. (Given the FIR have reneged on their financial commitments for the two professional teams in the PRO14 over a few years, I'd hope this is the case.)
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@Nepia Here's the make up of the club squads that are currently top 6 in the PRO14 - split across two conferences:
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@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
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@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
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@derm-mccrum If Argentina can buck up their ideas, France might not even make it out of their pool. A result I will, frankly, be cheering for.
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@chris-b said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum If Argentina can buck up their ideas, France might not even make it out of their pool. A result I will, frankly, be cheering for.
Even though it might be through gritted teeth, I might join you.
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@derm-mccrum Yes, well, I might be overtaken by schadenfreude if it is England that is teetering...
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@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
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@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together. -
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
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@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
And, please, do that in a separate thread. This thread is about the exodus of players/coaches in 2019.
Now, I think of it. Maybe, if a mod would be so kind to move all these stats posts to a new, separate thread?
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6 of 20, just checking Canada... Nope he's Welsh Edit see below
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/97920844/rugby-coaches-becoming-boom-nz-export-sector
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@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
6 of 20, just checking Canada... Nope he's Welsh Edit see below
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/97920844/rugby-coaches-becoming-boom-nz-export-sector
That article is sooo last year.
Keane got the boot at Connacht last season.
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
And, please, do that in a separate thread. This thread is about the exodus of players/coaches in 2019.
Now, I think of it. Maybe, if a mod would be so kind to move all these stats posts to a new, separate thread?
No way. They’re staying here. They’re relevant - to where they’ve gone.
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@kruse said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together.Blame
Stephen Aboud, Academy Systems
Eddie O’Sullivan - Player Management
Eddie Wigglesworth, Player Succession Strategy,
David Nucifora, Performance Director,
Anthony Eddy, Sevens
& Joe Schmidt, National Test Team.
Phillip Browne, CEO -
@derm-mccrum Then make a past-exodus thread.
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum Then make a past-exodus thread.
It's not actually a real biggie. Don't let it stress you
