2018 School Rugby
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@bovidae
Agreed Bovidae. Of note is that the coach of SBHS until he took over Hastings Boys and got them to two finals was Mark Ozich who has already this season equalled Hawke’s Bays results from last year with only 2 games played.
Although SBHS didn’t fare that well when they got to the finals it was an impressive achievement to even get there.
When you look above NZ 20s it surprising how many players come from “unfashionable” schools or conversely the number that don’t come from the “ big “ schools. -
@middleman Agree about SBHS. They've often upset CBHS or another Chch school to qualify.
Here's the winners since 2000, and you need to go back to the 3-peat CBHS teams in 2004-06 stacked with future ABs when a South Island team last won the Top 4.
2017 Hastings Boys' High School
2016 Mt Albert Grammar School
2015 Rotorua Boys' High School
2014 Scots College
2014 Hamilton Boys' High School
2013 Hamilton Boys' High School
2012 St Kentigern College
2011 Kelston Boys' High School
2010 Mt Albert Grammar School
2009 Hamilton Boys High School
2008 De La Salle
2008 Hamilton Boys High School
2007 Gisborne Boys High School
2006 Christchurch Boys' High School
2005 Christchurch Boys' High School
2004 Christchurch Boys' High School
2003 Rotorua Boys High School
2002 Napier Boys High School
2001 Wesley College
2000 St Peter’s College -
@bovidae Thanks for that. I somehow had Hamilton winning in 2016 and yet I was there watching Mt Albert beat Hastings!!
I remember that Christchurch era as Hasting lost to them in one of the three wins.
My point of the first post was not to downplay the traditional schools success but to highlight that many of our first class players learnt their craft in unheralded schools. That CNI competition is also strong.
I read somewhere recently that from Hawke’s Bay the school with most first class players at present is Lindisfarne and they haven’t been able to beat Napier or Hastings for a long time now. -
@middleman said in 2018 School Rugby:
Now that all the finalists for the top four are into their last qualifying games can I make this observation.
The Super 8 competition is at least equal if not better than any other schoolboy competition.
Both Napier and Hastings beat their Wellington opponents this year to qualify.
Top four winners for the last 2 ( or 3 ? ) years have been super 8 teams. The super 8 has no easy games and half the schools are much smaller than their Auckland Wellington and Christchurch opponents and despite rumours to the contrary there very little,if any, poaching certainly here in Hawke’s Bay.
I know every dog has his day and other teams will rise but the media coverage even locally does not give enough credit for the quality of rugby played in the Super 8 competition.The only school I can speak of is Hamilton BHS, and it poaches like crazy. Or rather recruits heaps of out of zone boys it has its eye on.
There are agents for the school directing promising youngsters at all likely venues (Roller Mills, local schools etc) -- but not staff members, because that isn't allowed. The school has a "ballot" to take out of zone boys, but every promising boy somehow, magically, makes it. Country schools have no chance holding on to their young talent.
They then don't poach much at Year 9 to 11 level -- they barely have to since most promising boys are already there. Though I've seen them take boys who otherwise they wouldn't (say expelled from another school).
At senior level they recruit to fill holes. That's how Henry Speight ended there. The rules prevent too much of that though.
That's a reason why St Paul's, St Peter's and HBHS dominate the Waikato -- they recruit the best. They also direct large resources to good training, of course.
As far as I know Hamilton don't play many boys past Year 13, as they are a good school academically, so the boys will have largely passed. I have heard it alleged that Rotorua have lots of Year 14 boys.
(One reason that so many boys from "top" schools don't make NZ Schools is that many of them are too old.)
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@mimic said in 2018 School Rugby:
@jk said in 2018 School Rugby:
Blues Top 4 playoffs
Westlake 53 - Kataia nil
No real surprise and expecting a loss by a similar margin vs whichever Auckland team Westlake have to place next
Westlake usually competes well against the Auckland winners.. St Peters have won by the skin of their teeth in their last two games.. I wonder if they have enough left in the tank to go further?
Never done to well from what I rememeber but could be wrong and would love to be suprised this time
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@middleman said in 2018 School Rugby:
My point of the first post was not to downplay the traditional schools success but to highlight that many of our first class players learnt their craft in unheralded schools.
A point I've made previously when you look at the NZSS teams. But many will be late developers if they aren't at a traditional rugby school because they simply aren't in the public eye to be involved in the age group teams.
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AFAIK HBHS bring a Fijian player over each year, Reece being a more recent example. But they won't be alone there across the NZ schools, and have a hostel for out-of-town boarders. The zonal thing isn't that restrictive if you have a father or sibling who attended. I was out of zone when I went there.
If it comes down to money then St Paul's and, especially St Peters, should attract the majority of the rugby and wider sporting talent in the Waikato. St Peters have Ricki Herbert as their director of football, amongst a who's who of coaches.
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@bovidae
Do you have any idea how much the rugby budget is for some of the big schools especially in Auckland.? We hear some almost unbelievable sums quoted compared with what happens here in the provinces. There does seem to be a major trend for outside coaches with big pasts and/or reputations.
Hastings has played some year 14 students but except for one they were all available for NZSS.
I must admit to milking our success a bit ( or even a lot ) because strength like we have had recently is a once in 20 year thing. No boarding facility is a bit of a hindrance but Napier gets some strength from that.
A couple of other Hurricane regional teams that are missed by many are Fielding High and Francis Douglas.
Thanks for all the information in the recent posts.
Thanks for all the info -
Was listening to somethign last week and they were saying some of the Auckland schools are doing upto 14 training/coaching sessions a week, but this is not all physical stuff, includes the video analysis and tactics, but 14 thats still alot!
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The final games this weekend:
BLUES
Boys - Westlake BHS v St Peter's College
Coed - Takapuna GS v MAGS
Girls - Aorere College (Qualified for Top 4)CHIEFS
Boys - Hamilton BHS v Wesley College
Coed - Manurewa HS v St Peter's Cambridge
Girls - Rotorua GHS v Hamilton GHS (on August 29)HURRICANES
Boys - Napier BHS v Hastings BHS
Coed - Wairarapa College v Feilding HS
Girls - Manukura (Qualified for Top 4)SOUTH ISLAND
Boys - Christchurch BHS v Otago BHS
Coed - Rangiora HS v Gore HS
Girls - Southland GHS (Qualified for Top 4) -
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It's not money, it's prestige.
No school pays boys to play, that I know of, so private schools have no advantage over a Boys High. Sure they can say the scholarship is "worth" $50,000 a year, but to the kid it is the same -- a free education.
So if the school is good academically, as HBHS is, then what do they gain by going to the private? They lose playing for a better team and often a terrible social time ( I've taught a fair few kids at a private school on scholarships who hated it -- fish out of water).
It's a winner take all situation. Because HBHS is the best (quite possibly in the world) lots of ambitious kids want to go there. Kudos to the school to get there, but it does strip the rest of the Waikato of talent with which to compete.
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@chester-draws
Agree that success breeds success, and that kids of any sport will be attracted to a school that offers them the best chance to succeed in sport and academics.My comment about money was related to being able to have first class facilities and top level coaches. I do know that HBHS lost at least one 1st XV rugby player and a 1st XI footballer to other schools (in the Waikato and Auckland, respectively) via a scholarship in recent years.
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@ploughboy said in 2018 School Rugby:
hamilton boys players dont seem to have much success post school though?
Fair comment, and probably a reflection of the lack of success of Waikato in the NPC in the last 5-6 years. Coaching? Waikato hasn't had much representation in the Chiefs either, irrespective of what school the players went to.
There are a number of ex-HBHS players in the current Waikato squad, and a few in other teams (NH, BOP, Canterbury). You've also got Ware and Webber in the NZ sevens but TKB is the last Waikato-schooled AB.
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@bovidae said in 2018 School Rugby:
@ploughboy said in 2018 School Rugby:
hamilton boys players dont seem to have much success post school though?
Fair comment, and probably a reflection of the lack of success of Waikato in the NPC in the last 5-6 years. Coaching? Waikato hasn't had much representation in the Chiefs either, irrespective of what school the players went to.
There are a number of ex-HBHS players in the current Waikato squad, and a few in other teams (NH, BOP, Canterbury). You've also got Ware and Webber in the NZ sevens but TKB is the last Waikato-schooled AB.
Have many come through the NZSS and U20s recently? Might we expect to see more Hamiltonians in 1st class rugby in the next few years?
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@nepia said in 2018 School Rugby:
Have many come through the NZSS and U20s recently? Might we expect to see more Hamiltonians in 1st class rugby in the next few years?
I have high hopes for Alaimalo, and Tupaea has already graduated from last year's NZSS team. There were also a couple of front rowers from St Pauls in that squad. All of them are in the Waikato U19s. Add in Roe and McWhannell (St Peters) from this year's U20s. Sullivan too, although he's one of yours via Auckland.
I forgot about Leger at C-M.
