All Blacks v France Test 3
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They could really do anything with the loose forwards, but I'm going to guess at:
- Ioane; 7. Cane; 8; Whitelock; 19. Frizell; 20. Savea
I think they will sell this that Frizell is covering lock and blindside (which Akira "can't" do). Savea is covering 7 and 8.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
They could really do anything with the loose forwards, but I'm going to guess at:
- Ioane; 7. Cane; 8; Whitelock; 19. Frizell; 20. Savea
I think they will sell this that Frizell is covering lock and blindside (which Akira "can't" do). Savea is covering 7 and 8.
Happy with that.
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I don't think Cane will play on Saturday. He was one of the players of which Hansen said they had made the mistake of "doubling up" players who had come back from injury. He said that while they had no other options for the props, they had for Cane. That's why I think Todd will play, hopefully starting, because I can't see Ardie as a starter.
If Squire can't play, and with Fafita etc already out with injury, I think Frizell will play; just not sure in which jersey (6 or 20).
Romano is back with the squad in Dunedin, btw.
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@stargazer didn't think Todd made the squad or was he called in, or is he one of the ones in the squad but not really but just being tricky?
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@taniwharugby Cane was still under an injury cloud when the ABs got into camp before the first test. That's when they brought in Todd as injury cover for Cane, and he's been there all the time.
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@stargazer Hansen's explanation didn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.
Usually, in Super rugby, you see people return to the fray and play short minutes. then the next week they play a few more minutes, and they gradually get up to speed and play their normal allocation.
All sorts of things they could do - including featuring Romano or Hemepo.
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@tim said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Phil Kearns is right.
Phil Kearns: His kid had it coming.
I must be evil. I laughed
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
They could really do anything with the loose forwards, but I'm going to guess at:
- Ioane; 7. Cane; 8; Whitelock; 19. Frizell; 20. Savea
I think they will sell this that Frizell is covering lock and blindside (which Akira "can't" do). Savea is covering 7 and 8.
I really hope that is what they do but not holding my breath.
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Franklin has played at 6 for the Highlanders hasn't he? He'd be the ideal lock/blindside cover off the bench, and has found some form.
I think we'll see BFA move back to fullback and Naholo on the right wing. This is the test Mo'unga is always likely to start now that the series has been won. He'd be wanting his pack and halfback to play better this week though!
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I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
This is the test Mo'unga is always likely to start now that the series has been won. He'd be wanting his pack and halfback to play better this week though!
You could well be right. Shag could also see how well he combines with DMac at 9.
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I'm just thinking about the guys NZ rugby has let go since 2015 in positions where we are now struggling. Cruden, Sopoaga and Luatua stand out. Faumuina also. That little lot would all (bar maybe Sopoaga) be in the frame right now and easing the pain somewhat.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
This is the test Mo'unga is always likely to start now that the series has been won. He'd be wanting his pack and halfback to play better this week though!
You could well be right. Shag could also see how well he combines with DMac at 9.
I wish they were doing that Amazon doco again this year. Would love to witness the halfbacks being dragged off to the corner of the sheds and read the riot act.
That was embarrassing from both AS and TJP last week.
I don't think you can fairly judge anyone that was trying to play outside them after the shite they dished up. When the utility back who doesn't even play halfback stands in and outplays you there is good reason to cop a towelling in showers. -
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
I think there are two major causes of things not being as settled as we would like at this stage in the rwc cycle.
First is the Lions tour. A few guys obviously stuck around for that before leaving to cash in up north where they possibly would have left a year or two earlier if the Lions tour wasn't happening. Eg. Kaino, Charlie F, Crockett, Cruden, TKB, Sopoaga, Fekitoa and Luatua (to a lesser extent) all held out until after the Lions to bugger off or retire. That has meant the post 2015 rebuild has been staggered so you only get 2 years to rebuild rather than the usual 4.The other major factor is the shear amount of long term injuries guys have been getting. Established guys like Coles, Read, Dagg, Ben Smith, Crotty and SBW have been out regularly or for extended periods meaning combinations haven't been able to form with guys coming in. Then on top of that you have newer guys like Squire, Laulala, Hames, Moli, Aumua, Jordie, nms and Bird being long term injured and missing out on important development time and chances to nail down a spot.
Of course you then also have to add guys like Ardie, Elliot Dixon, Harris and Tuipulotu not exactly stepping up to where we would want them to.
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@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
As much as some will hate it DMac is pretty much inked in (as in they will concentrate on filling other spots) for the utility role at the RWC. You have to take the squad makeup into account.
We desperately need Laulala playing as I think he could well overtake Owen F by next year.
I won't disrupt this thread too much more and may start (or retrieve) a RWC thread to seriously look at where we are depth wise and who we can count on. -
@shark personally think we're suffering an unprecedented injury crisis that I can't remember having to go through before.
Our depth is currently shit at prop yes?
Doesn't help that Hames, Laulala and Moli are out. All of a sudden that'd put Karl Mo outside the squad and leave one of our current THs out too.
Coles, Aumua. And suddenly Rikitikitavi is 6th choice.
Romero's injury meant he was down the pecking order. Still 4th choice. After that there's a drop off true. Combine that with Tuipulotu's form drop post drug test. I'm a fan of Lousi though.
Read. Have a feeling there's some potential 6/8s around who are injured (like Seu and others I can't think of).
Think our backs are looking pretty good though.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark personally think we're suffering an unprecedented injury crisis that I can't remember having to go through before.
Our depth is currently shit at prop yes?
Doesn't help that Hames, Laulala and Moli are out. All of a sudden that'd put Karl Mo outside the squad and leave one of our current THs out too.
Coles, Aumua. And suddenly Rikitikitavi is 6th choice.
Romero's injury meant he was down the pecking order. Still 4th choice. After that there's a drop off true. Combine that with Tuipulotu's form drop post drug test. I'm a fan of Lousi though.
Read. Have a feeling there's some potential 6/8s around who are injured (like Seu and others I can't think of).
Think our backs are looking pretty good though.
Think when full deck available prop is OK. LH: Moody/Hames/BKT TH:Franks/Laulala Both: Ofa/Moli.
For me biggest hole is backup 'power' lock for BBBR. Barrett (S) lacks heft. Romero not dynamic. Patty T doesn't seem to understand the tight requirements at scrum and maul (year at Crusaders would do him good). At LH lock Samuel W, Barrett and Franklin are respectable.
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Sumo seems to be certain on the team:
6 Frizell 7 Ardie 8 Whitelock 13 Goodhue
19 Hemopo 20 Todd 22 Mounga 23 Jordie
All Blacks to make major changes for third France Test
The All Blacks will ring the changes for final French test, double down on Highlanders, and hand starting test debuts to Shannon Frizell and Jack Goodhue, along with potential test debuts for a couple of their Super Rugby team mates.
