All Blacks v France Test #1
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@taniwharugby The warning was published yesterday.
The citing period was between 12 and 48 hours (I think this depends on rules that have been agreed upon for this specific tour).
Regulation 17.15.9 Initial Procedures ā Citing Commissioner Warning (a) A Citing Commissioner Warning shall be notified to the nominated officer of the Host Union or the Tournament Organiser in which the incident occurred within ordinarily a minimum 12 hours and a maximum of 48 hours of the conclusion of the relevant Match.So the citing period finished Monday evening at the latest. However, players who have received a warning have the right to challenge the warning and have to do so within a period of 48 hours after receiving the notification of the warning (Reg 17.25.3.c. The challenge itself will only be considered when he has to appear before the Disciplinary Committee or Officer after having received 3 CC warnings or a combination of three warnings and YCs during the series.)
That 48-hour period ended Wednesday evening at the latest (we don't know when exactly NZR/Tu'ungafasi received the notification of the warning).
I would find it odd if they had published the warning before the 48-hour "challenge period" had ended, unless they had been notified by NZR that they would not appeal. We don't know the exact details, so we don't know whether NZR has even considered challenging the warning or whether they sent any message to WR that they would not appeal. So based on that, the time of publication isn't particularly late.
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@stargazer fair enough, but I guess the question is, had he been issued the warning after the commissioner felt it didn't meet RC threshold or was this a retroactive type thing in response to WR?
Happy if it is all due process, and TBF, I think maybe when they list those cited each week, maybe those with warnings too, I know as you say above, they are published, but I didn't even know they issued warnings in this way and I think I follow rugby pretty closely.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Classic case of complaint based on outcome rather than actual action.
To me Cane's swinging arm was borderline yellow. I don't think one can validly say Ofa made a tackle which he should have known would make head contact. It was the deflection off the Cane tackle which caused this.
As an aside, double tackles are especially prone to this owing to the ricochet effect.I watched Saracens playing someone a while ago and the scenario was almost identical. Brad Barritt belted someone (tackle was slightly worse than Cane's) and then a prop pretty much did what Ofa did. I'm pretty sure Barritt escaped any card or sanction and the prop was red carded (think it was his 50th too).
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@taniwharugby They don't issue warnings often, but there have been a few CC warnings during SR as well this season, including one to Richie Mo'unga for - I think - an early tackle in the game against the Stormers, just before he broke his jaw. Ruan Botha, Taniela Tupou and Matt Lucas have also received warnings this season. There has also been a CC warning during the JWC to an Argentinian player.
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@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@rocky-rockbottom said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We share the duties around. I come down hard on anyone that misspeaks about Jordie. @Rancid-Schnitzel has Beauden covered, and we've recruited @Stargazer to white knight Scott as he plays for the Crusaders at the moment.
Highly Informative post. Too dense to really pick up on the white knighting, apart of course from the blazing obvious examples:
Nepia: Piri Weepu
Stagrazer: all cantabsnow got me wondering how far someone could go, white knighting the indefensible, what i'm trying to ask is is there such a thing as a white knight for Michael Collins?
White knight, more like black unicorn.
I don't think I white knighted Piri more than other players - of course, I was just upset that everyone fat shamed him, the poor big boned fulla.
I probably white knight Akira a bit now, or more accurately reverse white knight the Tongan Frizell
.Is anyone keen to try his pork sammies this weekend?
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@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
What a weird system, according to the Commission Ofa didn't commit a red card offence yet he is given a warning that can contribute to actual yellow and red card offences in the future?
Basically it's an off-field yellow card.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
In respect of the tackle by Sam Cane, the Citing Commissioner agreed with the on-field action taken by the referee to issue a penalty against him, and therefore no further action was warranted in relation to Sam Cane.
Got him in the jaw didn't he?
if they bring in the "nipples" rule, all hell is going to break loose.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@rocky-rockbottom said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We share the duties around. I come down hard on anyone that misspeaks about Jordie. @Rancid-Schnitzel has Beauden covered, and we've recruited @Stargazer to white knight Scott as he plays for the Crusaders at the moment.
Highly Informative post. Too dense to really pick up on the white knighting, apart of course from the blazing obvious examples:
Nepia: Piri Weepu
Stagrazer: all cantabsnow got me wondering how far someone could go, white knighting the indefensible, what i'm trying to ask is is there such a thing as a white knight for Michael Collins?
White knight, more like black unicorn.
I don't think I white knighted Piri more than other players - of course, I was just upset that everyone fat shamed him, the poor big boned fulla.
I probably white knight Akira a bit now, or more accurately reverse white knight the Tongan Frizell
.Is anyone keen to try his pork sammies this weekend?
Hell yeah, stadium food is so shit, if that is even moderately OK....
But I reckon you'll have to ignore the game and just q for the burger, only one stall selling it FFS
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Disciplinary update: New Zealand v France, 9 June
Ofa Tuāungafasi (New Zealand) has received a Citing Commissioner Warning from independent Citing Commissioner Freek Burger (South Africa) for a breach of Law 9.13 during the 59th minute of the New Zealand versus France match at Eden Park on Saturday 9 June. Having reviewed all available camera angles, the Citing Commissioner considered Ofa Tuāungafasi to have executed a dangerous tackle ājust short ofā red card level (in accordance with World Rugby Regulation 17), which caused injury to France winger Remy Grosso. In considering the mechanics of the incident, the Citing Commissioner determined that there were mitigating factors which prevented the conduct from reaching the red card level in his opinion. These included Remy Grossoās body position lowering as he went into contact with Sam Cane, who effected the tackle initially, immediately before Ofa Tuāungafasi joined a dynamic tackle situation. As a result, the independent Citing Commissioner issued a Citing Commissioner Warning ā issued for acts of foul play that are viewed by the Citing Commissioner to come close to but do not warrant the player receiving a red card. In respect of the tackle by Sam Cane, the Citing Commissioner agreed with the on-field action taken by the referee to issue a penalty against him, and therefore no further action was warranted in relation to Sam Cane.What a joke, how bloody low do they want players to set for a tackle, they will be crawling on the ground soon preparing for a tackle.
The All Blacks should appeal the warning.
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@unite said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Disciplinary update: New Zealand v France, 9 June
Ofa Tuāungafasi (New Zealand) has received a Citing Commissioner Warning from independent Citing Commissioner Freek Burger (South Africa) for a breach of Law 9.13 during the 59th minute of the New Zealand versus France match at Eden Park on Saturday 9 June. Having reviewed all available camera angles, the Citing Commissioner considered Ofa Tuāungafasi to have executed a dangerous tackle ājust short ofā red card level (in accordance with World Rugby Regulation 17), which caused injury to France winger Remy Grosso. In considering the mechanics of the incident, the Citing Commissioner determined that there were mitigating factors which prevented the conduct from reaching the red card level in his opinion. These included Remy Grossoās body position lowering as he went into contact with Sam Cane, who effected the tackle initially, immediately before Ofa Tuāungafasi joined a dynamic tackle situation. As a result, the independent Citing Commissioner issued a Citing Commissioner Warning ā issued for acts of foul play that are viewed by the Citing Commissioner to come close to but do not warrant the player receiving a red card. In respect of the tackle by Sam Cane, the Citing Commissioner agreed with the on-field action taken by the referee to issue a penalty against him, and therefore no further action was warranted in relation to Sam Cane.What a joke, how bloody low do they want players to set for a tackle, they will be crawling on the ground soon preparing for a tackle.
The All Blacks should appeal the warning.
The big aspect that complicates these situations is how to deal with players running into contact with their heads promoted and low.
When it is a short low drive (eg trying to bash over the line) the tackler can expect the move and adjust but the dangerous accidents always seem to be a players making a fast one out break that causes a defensive reaction where the normal body positions are at odds.
Cane makes those same tackles legally all day but the same instinctive defence (short reaction time) results in clocking someone if they duck/fall or simply run with their body angled low. Ofa was set for textbook tackle of someone running 'normally' and had a degree of tolerance. The ball carrier's body was very low and Canes tackle took out the tolerance.
That's asking too much of a tackler to compensate for. -
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@no-quarter someone at your end is definitely dragging the chain on Ardie.
@Canes4life was in charge of Ardie but he's...errr... mysteriously disappeared.
C4L is still looking for highlights of Ardie for his YouTube upload....
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In summary: much ado about roughing.
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@majorrage so what your saying is there is a lack of consistency in the issuing of penalties, YC's, RC's, Citing and the handing down of punishments...
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@taniwharugby yeah ... not exactly breaking news ....
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@majorrage said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Well, both sides have a point which is why itās goimg on.
Finally seen it on realtime, clear accident, although Cane was high so yellow not out of the equation.
The issue is thst players up north have been cited
and banned for what looks like less.Same in Super Rugby as well. If you are comparing the NH comps to tests then perhaps the starting point should be comparison to an equivalent SH comp.
Then you can move on to comments of inconsistency with application when the game moves to test matches.
Where are the comparative international bannings?
The trouble with having the necessary 'grey areas' in a dynamic game is that it opens up interpretation by the punters which can wildly differ and/or be influenced by media -
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@majorrage said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Well, both sides have a point which is why itās goimg on.
Finally seen it on realtime, clear accident, although Cane was high so yellow not out of the equation.
The issue is thst players up north have been cited
and banned for what looks like less.Same in Super Rugby as well. If you are comparing the NH comps to tests then perhaps the starting point should be comparison to an equivalent SH comp.
Then you can move on to comments of inconsistency with application when the game moves to test matches.
Where are the comparative international bannings?
The trouble with having the necessary 'grey areas' in a dynamic game is that it opens up interpretation by the punters which can wildly differ and/or be influenced by mediaNo, I don't agree with that. Senior rugby across all levels should apply the same rules.
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@majorrage said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@majorrage said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Well, both sides have a point which is why itās goimg on.
Finally seen it on realtime, clear accident, although Cane was high so yellow not out of the equation.
The issue is thst players up north have been cited
and banned for what looks like less.Same in Super Rugby as well. If you are comparing the NH comps to tests then perhaps the starting point should be comparison to an equivalent SH comp.
Then you can move on to comments of inconsistency with application when the game moves to test matches.
Where are the comparative international bannings?
The trouble with having the necessary 'grey areas' in a dynamic game is that it opens up interpretation by the punters which can wildly differ and/or be influenced by mediaNo, I don't agree with that. Senior rugby across all levels should apply the same rules.
I agree. I just think that across the board we have seen differences at levels and that is not helping the comparisons of events.
Test rugby is played faster and refs (especially those from the NH) aren't keeping up as well. That is leading to some on field errors and situations out of the norm. When the ABs play an even faster more dynamic game this chance of initial error increases even more.
