6N 2018
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@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
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@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
Yeah English rugby journalism have a love affair with Itoje and I sometimes wonder if he asks himself "is it because I'm a poster boy for the black community"? For sure he's a very good player and also he had that long winning streak last season but the wankfest over him has been excessive. He's a pretty intelligent guy so I'd hope it doesn't go to his head - it certainly doesn't seem as though it has affected him going by the odd interview I've seen.
His form since the Lions has not been up there and I'd guess that is for a mixture of reasons. Tiredness, staleness, playing in sides that are not as dominant as they were, mixed messages in game management and likely more. I do think that he's got real potential though, both as a player and as a leader and I really hope he fulfils both.
He has been a fair bit quieter in this years 6N (and far from the only culprit here) but oddly made some impressive line out steals v France. Maybe he's getting his mojo back?
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Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfield -
@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
@catogrande Yeah, you are right Cato, that stuff article is not exactly telling the whole picture. I read Guscotts column today as he's pretty good and usually on the money.
The biggest thing that shocked me though, was he didn't list Itoje in his world class players. That's certainly going against the grain of England rugby journalism, who almost seem to have some sort of illness which prevents them saying anything negative, or even neutral about him.
FWIW I think he's been relatively anonymous in this years 6N.
Yeah English rugby journalism have a love affair with Itoje and I sometimes wonder if he asks himself "is it because I'm a poster boy for the black community"? For sure he's a very good player and also he had that long winning streak last season but the wankfest over him has been excessive. He's a pretty intelligent guy so I'd hope it doesn't go to his head - it certainly doesn't seem as though it has affected him going by the odd interview I've seen.
His form since the Lions has not been up there and I'd guess that is for a mixture of reasons. Tiredness, staleness, playing in sides that are not as dominant as they were, mixed messages in game management and likely more. I do think that he's got real potential though, both as a player and as a leader and I really hope he fulfils both.
He has been a fair bit quieter in this years 6N (and far from the only culprit here) but oddly made some impressive line out steals v France. Maybe he's getting his mojo back?
I've often wondered similar from the journo community, not from his.
Don't get me wrong ... he's a great player ... and to call him over rated is not because he's not a fantastic player, it's because (as yet) he's not the once in a generation sort of player which is a mantle many have given him.
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@mikethesnow said in 6N 2018:
Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfieldFord has not been influencing games like he should, so I can understand the call for Farrell to move in one and TBH I wouldn't be averse to that nowadays. I wouldn't have that midfield though, Daly and Joseph are too much alike. I'd be OK with either Slade or Teo at 12 and then either of the other two at 13. Just which one would likely be dictated by the available wings. With Nowell out and Watson probably at 15 then it would be Daly on the wing.
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@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
@mikethesnow said in 6N 2018:
Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfieldFord has not been influencing games like he should, so I can understand the call for Farrell to move in one and TBH I wouldn't be averse to that nowadays. I wouldn't have that midfield though, Daly and Joseph are too much alike. I'd be OK with either Slade or Teo at 12 and then either of the other two at 13. Just which one would likely be dictated by the available wings. With Nowell out and Watson probably at 15 then it would be Daly on the wing.
Understand your thoughts on Slade, but Daly is the closest in-form player to the Farrell role.
England won't beat Ireland with Te'O trucking it up. The English back row aren't quick enough to support him.
Wales opened up the Irish midfield quite comfortably, an English backline of Care, Farrell, Daly, Joseph, May, Watson, Brown is the answer IMHO
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@majorrage said in 6N 2018:
I don't think changing the backline will do much - although perhaps some ball retention skills for that part of the team won't hurt.
A faster, balanced and competitive back row and some proper leadership will change things somewhat.
No disputing the backrow situation and solution.
However despite that shortcoming the English backs had more than enough ball against the French to win, they were just ineffectual.
The backline I proposed are proven line breakers and try scorers.
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Yeah Daly is in form and a class act, however he has played the vast majority of his rugby at 13 and then on the wing. Like Joseph, he has some wheels and a lovely outside break but he's far from a natural distributor, nor is he used to defending in the 12 channel, so I'd not have him there.. The backs had a reasonable amount of ball v the French, but not much good, quick, front foot ball.
I agree with @MajorRage that the real problem lies at forward and in particular an unbalanced and slow back row. Fucking around too much with the backs is like using a sticking plaster for cancer.
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So what are the changes to the pack which can be made?
Who's fit and good enough?
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@mikethesnow just going on the weekend, shoving Robshaw to 6, Haskell on at 7 would be a fine start.
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Absolutely, Robshaw back to 6. The guy has a fantastic engine on him and gets through a shed-load of the unsung work. He is one of the first names on the team sheet, so play him in his best position. Haskell is an option at 7, as is Armand or Simmonds for that matter. I reckon Armand is better suited to 8 than Simmonds and Simmonds better suited to 7 but that's not the way Baxter plays them at Exeter (and who's to argue)? Simmonds is bloody quick off the mark but then Armand is no slouch either
Itoje and Launchbury in the engine room and then a long discussion about the front row. Sinckler or Cole? Hartley, George or Cowan-Dickie at 2?
Vunipola stays at loosehead for me and I might just go with Sinckler on the tight. Eddie likely to go with Hartley if fit at hooker methinks and I can see the merit in that - we need some form of leadership there.
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@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
@mikethesnow said in 6N 2018:
Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfieldFord has not been influencing games like he should, so I can understand the call for Farrell to move in one and TBH I wouldn't be averse to that nowadays. I wouldn't have that midfield though, Daly and Joseph are too much alike. I'd be OK with either Slade or Teo at 12 and then either of the other two at 13. Just which one would likely be dictated by the available wings. With Nowell out and Watson probably at 15 then it would be Daly on the wing.
I wouldn't bother deciding a backline based on a wing selection. May as well put a spare loose forward on the wing to make tackles all day as any attacking ability goes unused.
Driving around the M25 today and there are big signs advising drivers of the game at Twickenham this weekend and to 'expect delays'. At first glance I thought it said 'expect defeat'
I see the Frogs have gone back to their cannibalistic days though with Itoje complaining of a bite during a maul.
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@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
@mikethesnow said in 6N 2018:
Time for Eddie to admit that his selections have been off / players not playing to their ability.
Farrell to 10
Daly and Joseph in midfieldFord has not been influencing games like he should, so I can understand the call for Farrell to move in one and TBH I wouldn't be averse to that nowadays. I wouldn't have that midfield though, Daly and Joseph are too much alike. I'd be OK with either Slade or Teo at 12 and then either of the other two at 13. Just which one would likely be dictated by the available wings. With Nowell out and Watson probably at 15 then it would be Daly on the wing.
I wouldn't bother deciding a backline based on a wing selection. May as well put a spare loose forward on the wing to make tackles all day as any attacking ability goes unused. Now you know that wasn't what I was saying. If we had Daly and Joseph in the centres then not much chance of the ball going wide.
Driving around the M25 today and there are big signs advising drivers of the game at Twickenham this weekend and to 'expect delays'. At first glance I thought it said 'expect defeat'
BastardI see the Frogs have gone back to their cannibalistic days though with Itoje complaining of a bite during a maul. Hadn't heard that. Be interesting see to see if was after Marler came on. He's not averse to "different" motivational tactics.
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@catogrande check out today's times. They have a shot of the maul with Itoje apparently calling out from the middle of it to Peyper that he was being bitten. At the next stop in play he talked to Peyper and pointed out the culprit. Then there is a mark on his arm that looks like, well, a mark on his arm.
No citing made, supposedly due to lack of evidence but, as with Russians and ex-spy assassination attempts, Les Blues and biting are good friends. -
I'm still to see evidence of Itoje being better than just 'very good'. IMO he hasn't reached 'great' and if he is to be rated as 'world class' then he needs to play at BBBR or Whitelock level. He certainly doesn't push either of them out of a world selection and would even have to fight past others.
I do think he is not getting the chance to fulfil his potential though under the three lock selection policy. It always looks like none of them really know what they should be doing instead of having clear roles. -
