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Resistance Is . . . Awesome? (Disclaimer: It's CNN, so handle with caution.)
Hillary Clinton just floated the possibility of contesting the 2016 election
CNN
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large
Mon September 18, 2017http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/hillary-clinton-2016-trump/index.html
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And the NFL players and administrators play right into Trump's hands. Can't people put aside their TDS and just ignore him?
That Turei bitch could become PM and introduce a Marxist state, but I still wouldn't disrespect the anthem and country by taking a knee.
At the end of the day Trump doesn't give a shit about the players or owners, but the fans. What do you reckon they think of all this.
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No doubt it's getting blown out of proportion by the mainstream news outlets, as they absolutely thrive on controversy. I imagine the majority of American's wouldn't really give a shit either way, but would far prefer the NFL didn't make political statements given:
- Most people watch sports for entertainment, and to escape things like Politics.
- The NFL has received over $1B in federal subsidies, so really should not be picking sides.
- Using the anthem and the flag to make your point is not going to endear you to many people, given how patriotic many American's are.
Of course Trump has fanned the flames, but he's very much a symptom of this insanity, not the cause.
It's really just another example of how divisive Identity Politics is. I bet the ideologues at Universities are enjoying watching people tear each other apart based on the Marxist ideas they've been pushing.
Also, the ongoing virtue signalling by people that have made millions thanks to the system they claim to rally against is pretty disgusting. These guys get paid outrageous sums of money to play a fricken game, and they're complaining about oppression? Really?
The USA has plently of real problems that need addressing, but thanks to a large chunk on the left buying into Identity Politics, the tribalism is increasing and people are attacking each other based on skin colour, which is absolutely nuts.
If I had to summarize the SJW movement, I'd say is it resentfulness disguised as compassion. As I said, no doubt this stuff is being blown out of proportion, but it's starting to have a real impact now.
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It's a good point. I don't see a win here for anti-Trumpers. He's already got my GOP friends posting like crazy on FB - the same people who would claim that the USA is the freeest country in the world.
Of course, they seem to have forgotten what supposedly makes it so fucking star-spangled-banner fucking awesome is supposedly just that freedom. Even though, personally, I think taking a knee is a bit ridiculous - I also can't see why people care. The irony is fun though, especially with my friend who identifies as a libertarian.
Btw, (genuine question) are the 'free speech' people having to tie themselves in knots about this? Any supporters (or at least not carers) from the people we often see cited in the religion (etc. thread)?
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I agree with much of that, but isn't this equally a situation where if you are for free speech (as I assume you are), then you'd be permissive of this action (regardless of whether you disagree with the purpose)?
On my hand, I'm wondering about my hypocrisy here. I've suggested in the past that it's fine for people to be fired if their actions are perceived to negatively influence their company (see Milo). So, in this case I don't have much choice but to celebrate people who oppose it being able to loudly disagree with the 'take knee-ers' and also put pressure on companies to fire them. I disagree, but I have to admit that they have that right.
But, does anyone think this is worth that, though?
Personally, I think it's a bit funny that their anthem gets pulled out, everywhere. It's not like it's an international fixture.
And then there is Trump. He's on a winner with his base, but is any of that making him a better president?
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@gt12 said in US Politics:
It's a good point. I don't see a win here for anti-Trumpers. He's already got my GOP friends posting like crazy on FB - the same people who would claim that the USA is the freeest country in the world.
Of course, they seem to have forgotten what supposedly makes it so fucking star-spangled-banner fucking awesome is supposedly just that freedom. Even though, personally, I think taking a knee is a bit ridiculous - I also can't see why people care. The irony is fun though, especially with my friend who identifies as a libertarian.
Btw, (genuine question) are the 'free speech' people having to tie themselves in knots about this? Any supporters (or at least not carers) from the people we often see cited in the religion (etc. thread)?
You can still support free speech while criticising how someone may express that right. At the end of the day, regardless of your right of free expression, it's never a great look when multimillionaire sportsmen protest against the very system that made them so successful.
With all the shit going down in my life, one of the few joys is being able to watch the Canes and All Blacks for a couple of hours each week. Fucked if I'd say that if every anthem involved bullshit political statements or the pre and post match reports involved politics and all that crap.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@gt12 said in US Politics:
With all the shit going down in my life, one of the few joys is being able to watch the Canes and All Blacks for a couple of hours each week. Fucked if I'd say that if every anthem involved bullshit political statements or the pre and post match reports involved politics and all that crap.
Perhaps that is their point though? An opportunity to force relatively well-off patrons to consider the wider socio-economic situation of other citizens?
I'm not saying that I agree with it (because I suspect it hardens attitudes), but I guess that is why they do it.
And, on the multi-millionaires part - that's true. But, most of these guys came from nothing and still have many friends and family in exactly the situation they are protesting. I'll try to post a link about that in a bit if I can find it.
Edit: from Eric Reid (most won't like the source, but it's his opinion piece)
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html
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@gt12 said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@gt12 said in US Politics:
With all the shit going down in my life, one of the few joys is being able to watch the Canes and All Blacks for a couple of hours each week. Fucked if I'd say that if every anthem involved bullshit political statements or the pre and post match reports involved politics and all that crap.
Perhaps that is their point though? An opportunity to force relatively well-off patrons to consider the wider socio-economic situation of other citizens?
I'm not saying that I agree with it (because I suspect it hardens attitudes), but I guess that is why they do it.
And, on the multi-millionaires part - that's true. But, most of these guys came from nothing and still have many friends and family in exactly the situation they are protesting. I'll try to post a link about that in a bit if I can find it.
And what difference are these protests making exactly? How are the lives of the friends and relatives still in the Hood being improved? It's complete bullshit that's doing nothing but alienate the fans. Don't even get me started on that Kaepernick tosser and his pig police socks.
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I don't know.
But, we are discussing here in NZ, so it's certainly generated discussion.
However, as I've mentioned, I don't see it necessarily being effective a- because most discussion is about the protest itself, rather than the rationale for it.
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I thought Trump's comments were dumb. Even if it might play out to his base it just needlessly fueled the flames. Multi-millionaire sportsman have the right to spit in the face of the country that gave them so much and pretend they really are the victims here, just as fans have the right to tell them to go fuck themselves. I see some are dragging out stories now of the kneelers who are also accused of physical and sexual assault. You want some spotlight, here you go enjoy. Everyone loses, and Trump has just made it worse.
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@rembrandt said in US Politics:
I thought Trump's comments were dumb. Even if it might play out to his base it just needlessly fueled the flames. Multi-millionaire sportsman have the right to spit in the face of the country that gave them so much and pretend they really are the victims here, just as fans have the right to tell them to go fuck themselves. I see some are dragging out stories now of the kneelers who are also accused of physical and sexual assault. You want some spotlight, here you go enjoy. Everyone loses, and Trump has just made it worse.
Totally agree. It was needless provocative shit from Trump, but it was even stupider that the NFL administrators and players fell right into his trap. It happens time and time again. When will people ever learn.
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@gt12 no doubt this has made hypocrites of many who stood up for the alt-rights freedom of expression, now demanding these players stand for the anthem. Personally I (obviously) don't care what they do, but I am wary of campaigns to have people fired for expressing themselves. With the NFL then I'd say the market will largely deal with it, if they start shedding fans then they will bear the financial consequences. The federal subsidies they have received complicate that though.
My points about Identity Politics were because the whole #TakeAKnee protest is about so called white priviledge, focussing on racist white police officers gunning down innocent black people. Now obviously I'm not saying that has never happened, but the statistics don't bear out what they are claiming. By far the biggest issues facing the African-American population are clearly black-on-black crime (there's actually very little black-on white or white-on-black crime), and the unescapable fact that something like 70% of black children grow up without their father.
The whole protest is based on neo-Marxist ideas of "oppressor" vs "oppressed", with racist concepts like white priviledge, which is grossly over simplifying what is a very complex society, is completely detached from reality, and creating a race war that doesn't need to exist.
I take a strong interest as I see these ideas becoming more prevelant across all western countries, but the USA appears to be further down the track than the rest of us.
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@no-quarter said in US Politics:
I take a strong interest as I see these ideas becoming more prevelant across all western countries, but the USA appears to be further down the track than the rest of us.
My takeaway from the whole sage is just how broken the US is. Both sides of the debate seem so, so far away from each other that there isn't much hope of compromise.
At a certain point who is right/wrong is irrelevant. If I were an American it would just make me sad, for a whole variety of reasons.
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I don't know why they can't just leave this shit alone and just focus on what they are supposed to do, i. e. play and/or manage and/or broadcast sport. There are more than enough media outlets, column inches etc. devoted to politics. Whatever the pressure put on them by activists and other rent seekers, sports stars and administrators are under no obligation to take a stand on anything and I'd wager the vast majority of the fans don't want them to either.
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The US has a pretty different history in this space than we do here though.
I am also sympathetic to the view that these people are role models to millions across the US, and if they feel strongly about a particular subject they are within their rights to act on it. It doesn't mean they should, though.
But once the President starts calling players out and calling them SOBs, usual conventions start to go out the window.
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@barbarian said in US Politics:
The US has a pretty different history in this space than we do here though.
I am also sympathetic to the view that these people are role models to millions across the US, and if they feel strongly about a particular subject they are within their rights to act on it. It doesn't mean they should, though.
But once the President starts calling players out and calling them SOBs, usual conventions start to go out the window.
Yeah, but I'd much rather the players act like role models and try to reinforce the virtues of hard work and discipline, as that is how you get ahead. Openly supporting racist hate groups like BLM, and in Kaepernick's case Fidel fucking Castro(!) is only furthering the divide in the USA.
And agree re: Trump. He should have just said something vague about respecting freedom of expression. His comments do nothing to unify the States, though as has been pointed out they do play to his base.
It looks like it's going to get worse before it gets better.
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