2017 School Rugby
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@Stargazer said in 2017 School Rugby:
Super 8
Just read that Hastings Boys have beaten Hamilton Boys in Hamilton today. Final score was close: 20-16.
The Super 8 Final will be played between the same teams next weekend, but should then be played in Hastings, because they've finished top of the table. Hopefully, the unbeaten streak will continue!Word on the street is that the final was drawn 12-12..
Hamilton scored the first try. -
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@Stargazer said in 2017 School Rugby:
@mimic Yeah, posted that in Hawke's Bay school thread. Crazy tiebreaking rule making Hamilton the Super 8 winner, despite finishing 2nd in round robin and not beating Hastings in the Final.
I think the tie-breaking rule is that in the case of a draw, its the team with the most tries. If it's the same then it's the team who scored the first try. If there are no tries, it's the team who scores first. Not sure what happens if it's 0-0.
These rules have been around for as long as I can remember, and applies not only to the Super 8, but the National Top 4. I wonder if it's a rule in all the schoolboy competitions when it comes to playoff footy as none allow extra time.
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@mimic I remember playing a game that went into extra time (only 2nd xv) but there was a lot of debate as to what the rules were which no-one seemed to know so we went into extra time.
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Seems a bit unfair on Hastings but no doubt they will get to meet Hamilton at top 4 time. St Pats Silverstream the only other Hurricanes region side even close to Hastings but even then it would be hard to imagine Hastings not going to the top 4.
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IIRC the rule is not that extra time is not permitted, but that school boys are only permitted to play 70 minutes of rugby in a day.
A 1st XV game will take 70 minutes, so no extra time.
My school had an Under 65 semi-final that had 5 minutes each way, because they only play 30 minute halves. Perhaps the 2nd XV game you saw fell in that category.
(I've also seen refs who didn't know the rules play extra time.)
A Hamilton final, Div 2 IIRC, did finish nil all a couple of years back. I believe the winner (Melville?) was decided on the basis of the winner of the round-robin game.
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@Chester-Draws Yep we played 30 mins each way so that would explain it thanks for that.
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@mimic said in 2017 School Rugby:
These rules have been around for as long as I can remember, and applies not only to the Super 8, but the National Top 4. Better that than a coin toss which is the next tie-breaker.
A Top 4 final was decided by exactly that rule a few years back. Hastings paid the price for a combination of over-confidence and stupidity by not taking penalties when they were on offer. And Hamilton defended very well when Hastings choose attacking scrums/lineouts.
A word about Hastings after having seen them live in Hamilton and on TV in the last 2 weeks. They are a very good team but not unbeatable if the opposition get their tactics right. That might sound a bit strange as they haven't lost this year but the Hamilton-Hastings game the week earlier came down to which team made the most of their one-man advantage. Hastings scored points in the 20 mins Hamilton had players in the sinbin while Hamilton didn't when they had an advantage for 10 mins.
Looking ahead to the Top 4, it should be the Blues vs Hurricanes and Chiefs vs SI in the semis. So assuming Hastings are the Hurricanes representative, as expected, they will have a very tough SF against the top Auckland team.
Hamilton plays St Johns tomorrow afternoon to decide the Waikato school for the Chiefs Top 4 playoffs. These 1st XVs don't have much rest between games.
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@Bovidae Hamilton could also have won the game. They suffered from the same, what you call over-confidence and stupidity, by not taking the points and going for line-outs. They also forgot they had backs.
The fact that that tie-breaking rule has been used before doesn't mean it's a good rule. IMO it's an incredibly stupid and unfair rule. If extra time wasn't an option, the team topping the table after the round robin should have been declared the winner, as was the case before they started playing finals in Super 8 in 2014.
Hastings have beaten all those Auckland schools early in the season, sometimes by big margins. They have more than a week rest before their next game in the Hurricanes competition. Hope they'll learn from their last two games.
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@Stargazer said in 2017 School Rugby:
@Bovidae Hamilton could also have won the game. They suffered from the same, what you call over-confidence and stupidity, by not taking the points and going for line-outs. They also forgot they had backs.
The fact that that tie-breaking rule has been used before doesn't mean it's a good rule. IMO it's an incredibly stupid and unfair rule. If extra time wasn't an option, the team topping the table after the round robin should have been declared the winner, as was the case before they started playing finals in Super 8 in 2014.
Hastings have beaten all those Auckland schools early in the season, sometimes by big margins. They have more than a week rest before their next game in the Hurricanes competition. Hope they'll learn from their last two games.
How is it unfair?
It's the same rule for both teams. The fact that it has been used before is just there to show that it is a rule, and it shouldn't be news to anyone. I don't think anyone has claimed that it is a good rule, but it's not bad enough to make a change.If it was to discuss seedings heading into the playoffs, or the winner at the end of a round robin competition, then yes, I would agree with you.
BUT, this is a final, and IMO, anything that has happened in the past shouldn't have anything to do with the result. Hastings got their reward for beating Hamilton by hosting the final. That was an advantage in itself. Wanna give the home team any more of a leg up by only having to draw to win? Now that my friend is unfair. -
@Stargazer Who else did Hastings play apart from MAGS?
BTW, MAGs aren't even good enough to make the 1A playoffs so I wouldn't be using that game as a predictor of what may happen in Palmy.
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@Bovidae said in 2017 School Rugby:
@Stargazer Who else did Hastings play apart from MAGS?
BTW, MAGs aren't even good enough to make the 1A playoffs so I wouldn't be using that game as a predictor of what may happen in Palmy.
These are Hastings BHS' results prior to the Super 8 (I've not included a few local games; unsure whether there were more games v Wellington schools):
Hastings BHS 53 - 0 Kelston (8 April)
Hastings BHS 22 - 10 Kings Coll (13 April)
Hastings BHS 43-5 MAGS (15 April)
Hastings Boys 15 - 5 St Kents (20 April)Hastings Boys 50 - 10 Wellington Coll (29 April)
Hastings BHS 46 - 7 Wairarapa College (6 May)
Hastings BHS 106 - 7 St Pat’s Town (13 May)
Hastings BHS 55 - 0 Rongotai College (20 May) -
@Stargazer @Bovidae I think it was said on here that the game vs St Kents was St Kents' first game of the year (as opposed to Hastings 4th) and out of those Auckland schools only St Kents have made the Auckland 1A semis.
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@KiwiMurph That's quite possible. It was Hastings' fourth game in less than 2 weeks.
Anyway, I don't think anyone in this thread have said that Hastings are going to win the Top 4, but they're strong contenders like they were last year. Who participates from the Hurricanes region isn't determined by the Super 8, so the outcome of the final won't affect that, unless it has crushed the boys confidence (which it shouldn't, they're still unbeaten).
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@Stargazer here's some comments from @Nogusta earlier in the thread on that HBHS v St Kents game
Not a lot in the game although HBHS clearly looked like the better team today. Understandable given the experience of their ‘big 4’ (McLutchie/Fakatava/Toala/Kereru-Symes) and the fact they’ve been on the road for a couple of weeks now and this being SKCs first hit out of the preseason.
SKC had a quite a few what you would consider starters either on the bench or not playing due to injury. There was a very noticeable difference in their play when 1st five eighth Rivez Reihana came on for the last 20 mins and in fact SKC probably had the better of HBHS during this period. Would love to see these 2 match up again when both are at full strength.
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@KiwiMurph I'm not even sure why this is being brought up. Nobody is claiming that Hastings' results until now are a predictor of what may happen in Palmy, as Bovidae seems to suggest. I only mentioned that Hastings has beaten those Auckland schools because he said that "they will have a very tough SF against the top Auckland team". That's very well possible, but they could also beat them as they've done it before this year. We'll see.
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UC Championship heads into semis this week. Been very tight comp as was shown when Shirley who finished 9th drew with Christchurch boys who finished 1st in rnd robin.
Cup semis see
CBHS vs Nelson
Christs vs Timaru
Very tight call in these games
Plate see
St. Andrews vs Waimea
St Thomas vs RangioraNumber of 'traditional' powerhouses miss out. St Bedes, Shirley, Mslbourough who have all won/made finals in recent seasons
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@Stargazer I never made any prediction either of who may win that SF, all I said was that will be the matchup this year based on the rotation.
Getting to the Top 4 is a great achievement itself.
Changing subject slightly, no mention of this from last night's news:
Stuff