Law trials and changes
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They've added 3 laws to the scrum because of how they've previously changed laws & interpretations on scrums.
A scrum is now a low set, impossible to hook, horizontal pushing penalty competition.
They let this restart get into this state. Now add more laws to legalise the 150 year old laws that had to be ignored to allow the modern scrum to function.
I can think of an easier solution.
Coincidentally, just as nz gets the best power scrum in the world ......
Although I admit the modern scrum, when evenly matched, that doesn't end in a penalty (except for my team) is a sexy beast.
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I find it absurd that a ruck and hence offside lines can now constitute one person over the ball.
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@antipodean said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
I find it absurd that a ruck and hence offside lines can now constitute one person over the ball.
Blame the Italians for that. Or more pointedly: the English whining about Italians.
New scrum laws make a sort of sense BUT requiring the side in possession to hook is still a fucking farce the way scrums are done now. At least they've allowed anyone in the front row to hook, which is good for teams under pressure e.g. rather than letting your hooker get crunched, we'll start to see hookers let the LHP "strike" with his right foot.
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@antipodean said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
I find it absurd that a ruck and hence offside lines can now constitute one person over the ball.
It will be an interesting one to watch that's for sure.
I get the reasons for it. It will clean up the tackle area decision making for the ref and give him space to judge other things. it will stop the wrong decisions like DuPlessis on Carter.
On the flip side it can create some unfair defensive situations where one linebreak and a series of quick offloads can result in the opposition having next to no chance of getting onside to take part. Good teams will play Sevens like continuity and have two support runners, one to stand over the tackle and set the offside line, the next to take a pass off the ground and keep things backpedalling.
It could be a great weapon against rush umbrella defences. Stack a narrow attack around the 10/12 channel until the outside defence is chasing back to get onside then transfer the ball wide. -
@Crucial If a tackled player immediately passes off the ground to a support player, all the rest of them need to do is pass before they run five metres and everyone behind them is out of the game.
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@antipodean said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
@Crucial If a tackled player immediately passes off the ground to a support player, all the rest of them need to do is pass before they run five metres and everyone behind them is out of the game.
No. Passing the ball puts offside players onside again. You are correct if the ball carrier only runs 5m though. The aim would be to keep running the ball across to a new attacking pod and only moving forward 5 metres at a time, then make another line break to renew the offside.
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@Crucial said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
No. Passing the ball puts offside players onside again. You are correct if the ball carrier only runs 5m though.
Depends if the offside line is where the last tackle/ ruck was:
11.8 Putting onside a player retiring during a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout
When a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout forms, a player who is offside and is retiring as required by Law remains offside even when the opposing team wins possession and the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended. The player is put onside by retiring behind the applicable offside line. No other action of the offside player and no action of that player's team mates can put the offside player onside.
If the player remains offside the player can be put onside only by the action of the opposing team. There are two such actions:
Opponent runs 5 metres with ball. When an opponent carrying the ball has run 5 metres, the offside player is put onside. An offside player is not put onside when an opponent passes the ball. Even if the opponents pass the ball several times, their action does not put the offside player onside.
Opponent kicks. When an opponent kicks the ball, the offside player is put onside. -
@antipodean Yes of course, you are correct, the law changes slightly after a ruck (which is now basically just a tackle)
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Temporary replacement period for off-field HIA now fixed at 10 minutes
World Rugby has approved an amendment to law making it mandatory for players who undertake an off-field screening under the head injury assessment (HIA) protocol not to return before 10 minutes (actual time) have elapsed. The amendment comes into effect globally from 26 August and applies to all participating elite adult rugby competitions*. It amends the previous time stipulation, which included no minimum requirement. With the latest data indicating that the average time for the screening to be undertaken by a team or independent doctor being a shade over seven minutes, the introduction of a fixed time will further promote a calm, clinical environment for assessment without rush or risk of screening time falling well under the average completion time. The adjustment will also assist match management. (...) **Exception: The Rugby Championship 2017, which kicks off this weekend, will operate with the amendment in advance of the global implementation date. -
@Stargazer said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
Press release World Rugby
21 July 2017Six law amendments added to global trial as northern hemisphere programme gets underway
Covering the areas of scrum and tackle/ruck law, these changes will be trialed alongside five previously confirmed laws and will come into effect on 1 August in the northern hemisphere and 1 January in the south.Good video explaining the six law amendments (posted above):
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Interesting video thanks. First weekend of the AP this weekend and a record number of tries scored. Few factors, good weather, some optional defence and perhaps some of the new laws around the ruck giving the attacking team a little more protection of their ball.
Had to laugh at the scrum feed section on the vid. All that seems to happen now is the 9 stands to the side and still feeds to the second row. Still didn't see a straight feed (or a ref blow for a crooked one...)
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Some good changes in there but why the fuck did it take so long to ban kicking the ball in the ruck? It's good that they've finally done it but even ignoring player safety, it was never about competing for the ball, just disrupting play for the other team. I've always hated it.
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@Stargazer All I see is less competition for the ball.
And the idea there can be a ruck and hence an offside line because someone stood over a tackle! Not even golden oldies run rucks like that.
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@antipodean said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
@Stargazer All I see is less competition for the ball.
And the idea there can be a ruck and hence an offside line because someone stood over a tackle! Not even golden oldies run rucks like that.
The strangest bit is the offside line then disappearing if the arriving player then steps back again. Rolland says that the opposition players that were previously offside are now onside again. That is plain odd. Once an offside line is formed it should stay in place.
The other thing I noticed was that the kicking the ball in the ruck rule is for player safety- fair enough. We have seen kicks to the head in these situation and there is no onus on the kicker to take care like they would in a tackle situation. It was inconsistent. However, the one man ruck thing demands that an arriving attacker steps over the tackled player encouraging him to plant his foot right where the tackler may still be getting away. Recipe for stomped on heads don't you think? -
Like all rule changes in rugby they create as many new problems as they try to fix. The more I look at it the more I wonder if that tackle/ruck thing was made up by a committee of theorists that have never played a game in their lives (WR Refs?)
If the arriving player doesn't (or can't) step over the tackled player then the situation is no different to the current one that England bitched about when Italy played to the laws. In fact according to Rolland they now have an incentive to hang around offside in case they get put onside again.
What is the reasoning for not just making the tackle the offside again? -
@Crucial said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
What is the reasoning for not just making the tackle the offside again?
That's called league.
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@antipodean said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
@Crucial said in Law trials and changes set for 2017 and beyond:
What is the reasoning for not just making the tackle the offside again?
That's called league.
Except in league you cannot contest the ball, that's the big difference. This new rule is like half-league. Removing opportunities to contest and adding in a spurious offside line creation.
