All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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Never mind the shoulder charges, the decision that needs the most public exposure and scrutiny is the one where Retallick is deemed offside at a ruck while his halfback box kicks. The Lions first 3 points
If that is the correct interpretation of that situation then the defensive rucks all over the world will change dramatically.
Suddenly calling that penalty (and then only once) needs some explanation
From 4:20 just watch Retallick and what he does
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This thread proves we're no different to any other set of fans, we just dont have as much practice. Heaps of questioning the ref, calling for harsher bans and cards, backed up by still shots. Not our finest work
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OK, 12 hours on, and I'm now sobering up.
That was a great Lions effort. I think that their 8 matched (and bettered) ours for the first 25, and after that we were always only looking for parity. I think the taking off Kaino thing is a very, Cane and Reado can do a Richie and keep them out. I like the attitude that all the rest of the 8 can lift anothre 20%. They did too, but we needed 8 men doing that to match the lIons last night.
Our defence in the last 20 went to pieces, but I can understand much of that with tired legs.
Here's the thing, pretty much every time we attacked them with a back hitting it up 2-5 metres around the ruck, we made ground, and they either got offside or otherwise infringed. Had we made our kicks we would have won anyway, and if we had stuck with that plan and trusted it, I think we would have broken them down again. So, I'm actually pretty confident about our strategy. Right now, we have problems with execution.
I won't rehash the SBW thing again, but I'd drop him. I think Laumape showed enough last night to be the 12 to get this strategy over the line. If Crotty is fit, then I'd start him and bring ALB off the bench (mainly because I don't know how long Crotty would last). If not, then ALB to start and Goodhue to the bench.
I think we have to discuss the type of kicks Barrett missed last night. By the stats, it's not a terrible performance, but every other team has a kicker who would have probably gone 100% of those last night. It's been known for a while that he struggles, and last night it was a clear factor contributing to the loss. Do we address it? How? We are still poor under the high ball - they picked Joride, which should mean that he is ready. In that case, they should play him (I'm not sure he is ready, but they picked him). With him at 15, Dagg and 14, and a power wing at 11, we look much better and should be able to a) nail the catching, and b) improve goal kicking. Even if he is only there are a back up, it's worth considering. However, it's probably not a long term solution, as he doesn't look a natural 15. So, either way, we need Barrett to improve his goal kicking.
My changes: None up front, Crotty in at 13 with ALB to the bench and Laumape starting (SBW LTFO), 50/50 on Sopoaga in (Cruden out), Jordie to 15 and kicks goals (assuming Naholo isn't playing).
Shag really really needs to talk with the refs about off side, and Read needs to a) tell TJP to STFU and b) quietly and consistently remind the ref about the lost opportunities from Lions offsides.
Lastly, I guess they will start SBW - assuming he doesn't get a week off. However, I hope he just focuses on being accurate. Strong and accurate, and play within the laws. That's all we've ever needed from him since Nonu left, but he just can't fucking get it done.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
This thread proves we're no different to any other set of fans, we just dont have as much practice. Heaps of questioning the ref, calling for harsher bans and cards, backed up by still shots. Not our finest work
Not our finest work, perhaps - but as you say - not as much practice.
But also - other than a couple of people, most seem to be agreeing with the ref on most calls.
And congratulating the Lions. Condescendingly, of course - arrogance must be maintained. -
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
When Ireland lose in the playoffs - again.
Nope, that's the whole cunning plan for hosting it in Ireland in 2023.
None of the other teams will be able to resist the allure of drinking proper Guinness during the tournament.
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@mariner4life nah bro, stills are the way forward, show behaviour to be far more thuggish!
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@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Apart from the clown (which is utterly pathetic) I haven't seen too much in they way of personal attacks. Maybe he is of the opinion that anyone questioning him is attacking him. I've come across that type before. With me or against me.
As for the personal attacks, that Warren thinks personally are quite personal, but doesn't give a toss about, even if they the are against him personally, but are water off ducks back, particularly his personal own ducks back, he personally doesn't care about them personally but they were major personal motivations for winning that he personally doesn't give a personal toss about.
He's a case study in contradictions.
It's hard to tell judging only by the byline (as I don't click), but I think Reason wrote 2 articles this week; first had the gist that Gatland's selections for first test were great but some other reasons meant things didn't pan out. Then about a day later the second test team was named and I assume it must have totally contradicted/undermined what Reason had written, because his next article byline was something about Gatland had lost all integrity or some such.
Petty. But petty in a batshit crazy exiled journo kind of way.
Before seeing that I had assumed Reason was just the consumate professional troll. Weigh up an issue and take a side that will annoy the most of his paper's readers. I ignore him as I don't believe he has the integrity of actually believing what he writes. Those bylines indicated he truely took it personally that Gatland's selections contradicted an article he'd just written. Silly arrogant fool.
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haha, this sums it up nicely
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@Donsteppa hope you threw the radio out the window?
Twattue has been featuring about this time most Sundays, I did mention it several weeks ago, so only yourself to blame!
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Donsteppa hope you threw the radio out the window?
Twattue has been featuring about this time most Sundays, I did mention it several weeks ago, so only yourself to blame!
Hastily starts reading @taniwharugby's posts again
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
What fresh hell is this?
Not only did the All Blacks lose thanks to SBW, but I turn on Radio Sport in the car and Mark Watson AND Chris Rattue are on the same show.
For an hour.
Why cruel world?
Could be worse, I'm not sure how though
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@jegga said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
What fresh hell is this?
Not only did the All Blacks lose thanks to SBW, but I turn on Radio Sport in the car and Mark Watson AND Chris Rattue are on the same show.
For an hour.
Why cruel world?
Could be worse, I'm not sure how though
"And now we're joined by special guest, Stephen Jones, welcome to the show Stephen..."
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
What fresh hell is this?
Not only did the All Blacks lose thanks to SBW, but I turn on Radio Sport in the car and Mark Watson AND Chris Rattue are on the same show.
For an hour.
Why cruel world?
I stumbled on to this inadvertently and thought it was a radio version of Ren and Stimpy. Then the Stimpy one suggested starting a test with Crockett and Faumuina and I realised who it was.
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Just seeing that Retallick offside call now and that is absolutely insane as too the jumping tackle bollocks, they both seem just made up by the ref which is worrying. SBW incident easily a red. The 2nd Vunipola incident however was on a very similar level, happy to accept different interpretations resulting in the different cards. The Sean O'Brien swinging arm looks to be like a complete nothing incident, maybe a penalty at most, just very unlucky timing for both players. Surprised that the citing commissioner believes it is a red card threshold.
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@Sapetyvi said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I think Hansen needs to shoulder some blame for this, after the red card if you absolutely feel the need to get more speed out there, swap Kaino for Ardie, he could have performed a hybrid 12/7 role easily, but hindsight is 20/20 and Laumape could have decided that, he looked dangerous with ball in hand. Either way he was forced becouse SBW was dumb.
I don't think the decision was made to get more speed out there - it was made to get 7 backs on the park. that they did it so quickly it was clearly something they'd thought about previously and I think it was the right decision.
If you think about it - when a prop gets yellow carded it's usually the blindside flanker who sits out part of the 10 minutes while the reserve prop has to come on. So Kaino is logically the man who is going to be sat down.
In this case, the problem is that we can't spend 65 minutes defending seven backs onto six. We're short of a second five eighth and we have a specialist one of those sitting on the bench, so I can't see why we'd bring on Ardie to play there?
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I can't believe NZers were posting at 8am this morning. Surely drinking yourself into oblivion is the only option after an AB loss?
Anyway, after a restless sleep full of nightmares some further thoughts...
First of all congrats to the Lions and their fans. It's been nearly 8 years since the ABs last lost at home, 14 in Wellington and to do it against the odds after being touched up in the first test is an incredible effort. That test was brutal as fuck, there'll be some very sore bodies today, but it was one for the ages and will go down in rugby folklore. Long live Lions tours!
The ref, I don't want this to sound like a whinge as he didn't cost the ABs the game, but as soon as Garces was announced a shockwave of nerves went through all rugby supporters. The 2nd test of the series was always going to be the most intense and full of niggle, and it was clear before the match that Garces was never going to be up to the task. He was very poor for both sides - inconsistent as fuck and straight up arrogant at times. His comminication with the rest of the reffing team was comical and showed huge incompetence. So that begs the obvious question - why was he selected for such an important match? Very frustrating as his performance will take away from what was an epic test now.
Despite that, this has been an awesome tour. Some absolutely cracking matches in the leadup to the tests, with some of the NZ teams showcasing the depth of talent we have (NZB, Blues, Canes and Landers) while the Lions showcased how clinical they can be with thier style of rugby (v NZM, Saders and Chiefs).
And now against the odds we are all off to Fortress Eden locked at 1-1! Will the heroic soldiers from Britian and Ireland have the strength to bring about the fall of Eden? Or will the noble men in black repeal yet another attack on our castle? An epic LOTR-style battle of Helm's Deep awaits us all - bring it on!!
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@jegga I still can't see much in the Naholo incident that would warrant SOB taking an enforced break.
What I can't believe after watching the replay is some fans trying to minimise Vunipola's actions. He was't clearing out a player in the ruck. He was clearing out a player who was already out of the ruck and he was damn lucky that his tucked right arm didn't connect with Barrett's head.
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@Billy-Tell There is a citing process but why anyone would have faith in it is beyond me.
As for pre-anticipating a tackle. That's a new one. Surely all tackles almost are pre-anticipated. It was Sinckler's actions that caused a dangerous situation and sets a dangerous precendent if the tackler is now responsible for the getting the ball carrier out of the predicament he got himself into.
As for the communication barrier between the officials. I believe that we need to move to referee teams that work together regularly so they can build combinations and understanding because too often they don't appear to trust each other and we get muddled application of the laws.
