Americas Cup
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@canefan Definitely limits on foils / dagger boards but they apply right through I think, not just in the actual AC match. Basically 2 sets.
In 2013 Oracle did achieve some significant gains in speed after the Kiwi boat builders got there over the lay days. Adding Ainslie would have helped as well but as they say - the fastest boat will win. let's just hope we still have the fastest boat in a weeks time.
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@canefan said in Americas Cup:
As someone else posted I reckon Ainslie was as big a factor if not more than any actual boat modification and the fact they worked out how to max out the handling of their boat as they went along
Apparenlty the gyroscope foiling system also started working last time around - that made a massive difference.
It's a huge amount to come back from though. There are also major limits to foil modification, etc that can be done. We're all nervous, but really based on the last two days you wouldn't expect anything except a rout next weekend.
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@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
As someone else posted I reckon Ainslie was as big a factor if not more than any actual boat modification and the fact they worked out how to max out the handling of their boat as they went along
Apparenlty the gyroscope foiling system also started working last time around - that made a massive difference.
It's a huge amount to come back from though. There are also major limits to foil modification, etc that can be done. We're all nervous, but really based on the last two days you wouldn't expect anything except a rout next weekend.
It's a funny one... it should feel a lot better, but after 8 - 1 I just want to hide behind the couch until its all over and safe to look...
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@Donsteppa said in Americas Cup:
@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
As someone else posted I reckon Ainslie was as big a factor if not more than any actual boat modification and the fact they worked out how to max out the handling of their boat as they went along
Apparenlty the gyroscope foiling system also started working last time around - that made a massive difference.
It's a huge amount to come back from though. There are also major limits to foil modification, etc that can be done. We're all nervous, but really based on the last two days you wouldn't expect anything except a rout next weekend.
It's a funny one... it should feel a lot better, but after 8 - 1 I just want to hide behind the couch until its all over and safe to look...
i know right? i'm sounding like a cliche machine right now with my non-kiwi friends, they are all excited for us etc but i respond with - "early days, Oracle will leave no stone unturned, just takes one mistake' - they don't understand that this is very familiar territory for us
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@JayCee said in Americas Cup:
@Donsteppa said in Americas Cup:
@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
As someone else posted I reckon Ainslie was as big a factor if not more than any actual boat modification and the fact they worked out how to max out the handling of their boat as they went along
Apparenlty the gyroscope foiling system also started working last time around - that made a massive difference.
It's a huge amount to come back from though. There are also major limits to foil modification, etc that can be done. We're all nervous, but really based on the last two days you wouldn't expect anything except a rout next weekend.
It's a funny one... it should feel a lot better, but after 8 - 1 I just want to hide behind the couch until its all over and safe to look...
i know right? i'm sounding like a cliche machine right now with my non-kiwi friends, they are all excited for us etc but i respond with - "early days, Oracle will leave no stone unturned, just takes one mistake' - they don't understand that this is very familiar territory for us
Tell them that we (ETNZ) are "under no illusion" that racing will get harder.
Oracle "has been here before". -
I'm pretty ignorant to racing but can of the experts on here explain what happened the last time around? Seemed like we had the faster boat to get to 8-1, they made a "modification" and suddenly they had a significantly faster boat. I don't think I've ever read a reasonable explanation for that?
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@No-Quarter said in Americas Cup:
I'm pretty ignorant to racing but can of the experts on here explain what happened the last time around? Seemed like we had the faster boat to get to 8-1, they made a "modification" and suddenly they had a significantly faster boat. I don't think I've ever read a reasonable explanation for that?
Fuckers cheated.
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@nzzp said in Americas Cup:
@canefan said in Americas Cup:
As someone else posted I reckon Ainslie was as big a factor if not more than any actual boat modification and the fact they worked out how to max out the handling of their boat as they went along
Apparenlty the gyroscope foiling system also started working last time around - that made a massive difference.
It's a huge amount to come back from though. There are also major limits to foil modification, etc that can be done. We're all nervous, but really based on the last two days you wouldn't expect anything except a rout next weekend.
How did they power that gyro again?..... Apparently everything on board these boats is powered by the grinders/cyclors. I am sure the stability when we turn is down to leg power over arm power
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Spithill had one thing right when he said today that they must find more boat speed.
ETNZ has put together a very innovative package - cyclors - daggerboards - foil controls all of which come with a variety of associated benefits. Cyclors definitely seem to have more in the tank than grinders. Kiwi's all sitting low in cockpits so less wind resistance - can see the course all the time rather than having to poke their heads up. More stable don't have to have someone adding their weight to the bow to give it some stability.
What we didn't have was time racing and time in Bermuda. The LV series gave us this and it shows. We look much more polished than we did in the round robin against Oracle.
However these boats are so freakishly fast that it looks like we hold a massive advantage A few minor improvements by Oracle and it could swing around quite easily. The counter to that is the Kiwi's seem to think they still have improvements in them.
We have already exceeded my expectations. I thought not making the AC would be a fail but didn't expect us to ever get a series lead
Fingers crossed
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11878929
There will be no massive changes to the boat according to Lester
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Haha, the recording I d'd and watched just now stopped about 10 seconds before we got over the line....the American guy making the recording must have been pissed off and stopped it. Schadenfreude
Great sailing today, almost perfect around the course.
Yes, last time Oracle cheated. What will they do now? Let's see in 6 days. -
@Virgil said in Americas Cup:
@No-Quarter said in Americas Cup:
I'm pretty ignorant to racing but can of the experts on here explain what happened the last time around? Seemed like we had the faster boat to get to 8-1, they made a "modification" and suddenly they had a significantly faster boat. I don't think I've ever read a reasonable explanation for that?
Fuckers cheated.
Thanks for clarifying the technical details...
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@No-Quarter said in Americas Cup:
I'm pretty ignorant to racing but can of the experts on here explain what happened the last time around? Seemed like we had the faster boat to get to 8-1, they made a "modification" and suddenly they had a significantly faster boat. I don't think I've ever read a reasonable explanation for that?
To elaborate on Virgil's succinct summation:
There are actually two schools of thought
The most common explanation here in NZ is that ETNZ were short of money so Oracle offered them some cash in return for an extra lay day, which Dalton gratefully accepted because ETNZ was seriously underfunded and no one could see any way back from 8-1.
Oracle then put 40 boatbuilders from the Warkworth company involved in the development of ETNZ's boat on a plane to SF where they worked solidly for 72 hours to improve the Oracle boat.
None of the above is contested by Oracle. The kiwi cheating argument is based around bribing the Warkworth crew to divulge ETNZ's IPThe OR counter-argument is that the two boats had similar speeds but ETNZ were sailing better and that the fundamental change to get them back into the game was the replacing of Kotsciezki as tactician by Ainslie which allowed OR to improve their sailing performance and hence take out the series and that all the cheating allegations are just sour grapes.
OR's position is actually pretty popular with neutrals mainly because unfortunately their an awful lot of Kiwi ferals out in the sailing blogosphere who have pretty shameful chips on their shoulders and who have already started with the triumphalism.
Personally I find OR's argument a little suspicious because while I think Ainslie did make a hell of a difference pre the break in racing OR's big issue was they couldn't consistently stay up on their foils but after it they had no issues. It is possible this was all to do with Ainslie and more experience foiling but hey why the Warkworth "traitors" then.
With hindsight I think there were two critical decisions - gifting OR the extra time to improve their boat and also covering their boat in the race that ran out of wind. If you recall we could have won the Cup but for a race in which we were minutes ahead being called off because it ran out of time. OR through in a series of tacks which we covered (which is match racing 101) however these tacks slowed the race down. What we should have done is trusted our boat speed, ignored OR and dragged for the line. All easy after the event huh.
Whatever it does make me nervous still about what rabbits OR can pull out of the hat in the next 5 days.
Or as Virg says - cheating fuckers
