Eligibility back on the agenda
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@taniwharugby I'm not sure how? There aren't that many Aussie players in NZ Super Rugby, are there? Mike Alaalatoa, and ...? Or in Mitre 10 Cup?
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@Stargazer I mean players who might go there, intending to play for ABs, but end up missing out and being able to play for Aus....not Aussies here.
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@taniwharugby You mean players like C. Retallick?
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@Stargazer well no, cos right now, he is ineligible for the ABs.
I guess Aussie would always limit numbers anyway, but if they are not tied to NZ already, but have aspirations they wanna be an AB, but could play for Aus....
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@taniwharugby I think you need to give an example, because I don't see how NZR allowing NZ players playing SR in Oz to play for the ABs, can lead to ... to what exactly. Australia selecting who for the Wallabies?
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@Stargazer FFS....Yes Callum could potentially be a Wallaby, however, when he signed, I expect he knew he was all but giving away his dreams of an AB jersey, may even had his eyes on a Wallaby jersey, whereas in the future, that may not be the case...
I dont expect it wil be a problem at present with the way Aussie rugby is, but if strong, then maybe we might lose one or 2.
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@taniwharugby Would still need to meet the WR residency rule though.
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@Stargazer I think that's the point. Players would be less reluctant to head to Aus as they would still have the AB door open. And then would become eligible for Aus as another option...so in essence almost more inviting than staying in NZ.
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New Zealand Rugby pays its top players a lot of money. Why would we pay them money to go and play in another country most of the time? Having five teams gives us combinations and we get to see the best go head to head in derbies. If any player wants to go then they would have to take a massive pay cut and also be open to the same restrictions - for instance all All Blacks were rested for two Super Rugby games in the 2015.
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@hydro11 said in Eligibility back on the agenda:
New Zealand Rugby pays its top players a lot of money. Why would we pay them money to go and play in another country most of the time? Having five teams gives us combinations and we get to see the best go head to head in derbies. If any player wants to go then they would have to take a massive pay cut and also be open to the same restrictions - for instance all All Blacks were rested for two Super Rugby games in the 2015.
I see it the other way, the ARU pay a substantial amount of the money ABs get - the Super rugby part.
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@Nepia said in Eligibility back on the agenda:
@hydro11 said in Eligibility back on the agenda:
New Zealand Rugby pays its top players a lot of money. Why would we pay them money to go and play in another country most of the time? Having five teams gives us combinations and we get to see the best go head to head in derbies. If any player wants to go then they would have to take a massive pay cut and also be open to the same restrictions - for instance all All Blacks were rested for two Super Rugby games in the 2015.
I see it the other way, the ARU pay a substantial amount of the money ABs get - the Super rugby part.
I suppose but then other players will probably get that money.
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I think this would make a lot of sense for both NZ and Oz rugby.
Oz rugby is going rapidly down the pan. They need to boost their SR teams with skilled players - and where better source than across the Ta$man. For NZ, having their younger players playing in the same comp across the water is far better than having them hump off to Europe. It's a five-year window before they can declare. Sufficient time to assess project players and either bring them back or cap them in Oz in fifth year. The lure of the black geansai is strong.
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No fucking way.
The part where NZ would benefit from this ie. a quade (if he was good) type situation rarely occurs.
I don't see any benefit to NZ rugby in established guys playing in Australia other than their Super rugby salaries being paid by Amtge ARU. However the negatives are numerous. As already mentioned it could add to the already long list of NZ guys of the lower tier in Australia potentially becoming eligible for the Wallabies. It removes the control the NZRU have over player workloads,training and game time. It dillutes combinations between players it could also weaken NZ super rugby teams.
The strength of NZ rugby is largely due to it's systems of development, including at Super rugby level, it's not worth risking that by opening up the country to poaching of our top level by Australia. It's bad enough we have to compete with the NH clubs. -
@pukunui said in Eligibility back on the agenda:
The strength of NZ rugby is largely due to it's systems of development
This element seems to be overlooked. Right now, is there a single coach in charge of an Australian Super Rugby franchise you'd be happy to see in charge of the development of a potential All Black?
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@antipodean said in Eligibility back on the agenda:
@pukunui said in Eligibility back on the agenda:
The strength of NZ rugby is largely due to it's systems of development
This element seems to be overlooked. Right now, is there a single coach in charge of an Australian Super Rugby franchise you'd be happy to see in charge of the development of a potential All Black?
Is there a single coach anywhere outside of NZ you'd be happy to see in charge of the development of a potential All Black?
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@Pot-Hale There's some talented coaches internationally, however, I can't help but feel a great deal of it is the depth of talent that drives the standards. As Porsche says; competition improves the breed.
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NZ has the systems, coaches and players. It should put a value on that.
Oz rugby is dysfunctional currently. But NZ needs a healthy Oz rugby system. For a myriad of reasons including commercial. I reckon it's in NZ rugby long-term interests to support Oz rugby - but be paid for it too.
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@Pot-Hale It's been supporting Australian rugby for (at least) four decades. How much more does it require? With the advent of professionalism, it's no longer the same landscape as the threat of a professional code (league). Australians unsurprisingly only support winners; so to what level would New Zealand have to become less competitive to make Australians maintain an interest in rugby..?
THere's no doubt the benefit accrues from playing a Super Rugby competition; coaches are on record saying the experience of going to South Africa and playing there is invaluable for young/ inexperienced players but IIRC the All Blacks was the only level in the NZR that is of net financial benefit.
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I've no doubt it has supported it. I'm saying that additional support comes at a price for the ARU.
In SR and test. I'd have NZ run Oz rugby for say 10-12 years. Pool revenues and split them 60/40 in NZ favour.
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Tamati Ellison was another who could have been good enough to pick, particularly when we lost a few midfielders.
Reckon NZR could guard against the @taniwharugby scenario by contracting players who want to play in Aus to ensure they play NPC so they won't qualify on residency. And also place conditions on them that they would have to write into any Aussie contract.
I can see a degree of upside.
Why isn't Retallick eligible? Are you talking NZR's own criteria because he is still eligible under WR?
Garden-Bachop is another guy who is an NZer playing in Aus.
