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@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia.
Yep, the Saudi & Qatari push into Indo in the last few years has been huge. What was a staggeringly easy going strand of Islam has been increasingly fucked by those assholes. Its not an odd Saudi hate school. Its a concerted Saudi driven process from the top down. IE its actual giovernment policy from the highest level
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Saw a doco on this a while back, but here is some background:
A lot of the shit going on now can be traced back to this incident.
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@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia.
Yep, the Saudi & Qatari push into Indo in the last few years has been huge. What was a staggeringly easy going strand of Islam has been increasingly fucked by those assholes. Its not an odd Saudi hate school. Its a concerted Saudi driven process from the top down. IE its actual giovernment policy from the highest level
True huh? (not sarcasm, I consider what you wrote to be accurate)
That's a shame because the Indo's I knew/know are a bloody happy and plaeasant bunch. Similarly the south of Thailand where the wife comes fromSo, the gist is that the Saudi Muslim influence is the dodgy one then?
Then why the fuck aren't we ridding ourselves of these vermin at the nest like we do with actual rodents? Instead we fucken acquiesce to their every whimOh yeah, money and oil...and world cups.
Every western power displays outrage at this insidious movement but not one of them will make the sacrifice that changes the status quo and balance of power I guess -
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia.
Yep, the Saudi & Qatari push into Indo in the last few years has been huge. What was a staggeringly easy going strand of Islam has been increasingly fucked by those assholes. Its not an odd Saudi hate school. Its a concerted Saudi driven process from the top down. IE its actual giovernment policy from the highest level
True huh? (not sarcasm, I consider what you wrote to be accurate)
That's a shame because the Indo's I knew/know are a bloody happy and plaeasant bunch. Similarly the south of Thailand where the wife comes fromSo, the gist is that the Saudi Muslim influence is the dodgy one then?
Then why the fuck aren't we ridding ourselves of these vermin at the nest like we do with actual rodents? Instead we fucken acquiesce to their every whimOh yeah, money and oil...and world cups.
Every western power displays outrage at this insidious movement but not one of them will make the sacrifice that changes the status quo and balance of power I guessNo, instead we actively arm them and then trumpet this as a huge win. I'm not having a go at the recent Trump thing per se, the previous God knows how many US administrations did the same as well as countless UK Governments from both sides of the spectrum, France etc etc.
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@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@MajorRage said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Utterly soul destroying act of complete and utter cowardice, by an individual who is forever going to be worshipped by few, but loathed to the very core by the maximum majority.
I'm not going to criticise islam here. This act is nothing but pure proof that this group, and it's followers, soldiers, caliphates, whatever, are the worst people to walk this planet since nazi germany. Push political/religous ideologies .... ok, think your bananas and don't agree or understand, but can have some sort of feeling as to how you make your position. Have children caught in the crossfire - anger about it, but again, accept that will always be part of war/battles.
But deliberately target children? At a concert? I can't comprehend it. I just can't.
I fear world war 3 has started.
I think it'd be worth spending some time looking at the various forms of Islam before absolving it of criticism. What ISIS follows is a fundamental version of Sunni Islam based on Salafi Jihadism and Wahhabism. Basically they are all about the restoration of the caliphate of early Islam - I.E. 7th century type shit. It is stated that the Koran is the literal word of Allah and is not open to interpretation - and that is what they stand by. They believe that Sharia Law should be the law of the land, and that other Muslims that do not follow Islam in this way must be "purged of apostasy" (killed) which is why the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims in their vicinity. Their entire goal is to spread Islam to the ends of the earth by any means neccessary, and that the day of judgement is near.
This form of Islam is most common in the Gulf states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which is why people like @gollum have been at pains to point out that these countries are at the heart of the problem - investing many millions of dollars erecting Mosques etc in other countries to spread this ideology. Which is why I was so angry in my first post in this thread - we turn a blind eye to this occuring (Tommy Robinson has been beating this drum for more then a decade and just gets called a racist) and then we turn around and ask retarded questions like "why is this happening?" and "how did he get radicalised?".
Right now they are actively targeting South East Asia and there have been more and more issues arising there, and from an NZ POV that's a lot closer to home.
Islam is a shitty religion, it really is, it is not just this form of Islam that inspires human rights abuses the world over, but if we are talking about terrorist attacks specifically then that form of Islam should be the focus. But either way - all of this falls under the Islam umbrella so to try and say "not Islam" is incorrect and unhelpful.
But instead of people actually educating themselves and having any kind of meaningful debate about it, the majority of people would rather pick a side (left or right) and argue with each other. And the virtue signalling is fucking vomit inducing.
I hear you NQ, I do.
But (simplistically), what about all my good good friends that are muslim and share your outrage of these murders? the ones I know have lived in SEA in harmony for generations
How are they any more culpable than us?
Apart from the randomness of where they were born, what's the difference between you and them?Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia. It's only a matter of time till they start doing the same in countries in the region with minority Muslim populations. The Phillipines have had issues with Muslim Ferals for a long time.
perhaps Jeg. however I've been to those countries countless times and worked there and stayed there and experienced them as free, boozing normal societies. I've had meetings with women ceos and the like and never seen the kind of repression associated with say, Saudi Arabia.
admittedly these are only my experiences but I must believe them over the often maligned MSM.I don't know mate but I ain't seen it first hand in Malaysia. have you?
I haven't been yet, the mrs Uncle and aunt are Muslims and live in Sarawak. We are planning to visit in the next year or so.
You can take from this article what you want but as Gollum pointed out the Saudis are very keen to spread their ideology to countries that were normally quite tolerant
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/malaysian-diplomat-the-saudi-wahhabi-threat-to-asian-security/
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Yep, Indo has been for a very long time a cracking example of "good" islam. Then a few years back the Saudi tossed a shit ton of cash in & set up Wahabbist mosques & madrasas.
Problem with turning down Sausi is the money. So much money. They are a fricking cancer in the UK, but 5,000 jobs at BAE & Rolls Royce directly reply on their weapon sales. Same in the US. Their development fund has tossed some serious cash at Indo too -
http://www.theinsiderstories.com/indonesia-saudi-arabia-sign-11-mous-during-king-salmans-visit/
On the plus side we get someone to buy Arsenal & Man City, on the downside every new mosque will preach death to whitey. So thats a good deal (short term) for most governments
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@Catogrande
That's what I see too.
A very real and apparent reluctance to take on these people by our "leaders".International pressure rid us of nazis and appartheid...why not the same with a state that in my lifetime went from nothing to outrageous behaviour
Is oil that important? i guess so...
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@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia.
Yep, the Saudi & Qatari push into Indo in the last few years has been huge. What was a staggeringly easy going strand of Islam has been increasingly fucked by those assholes. Its not an odd Saudi hate school. Its a concerted Saudi driven process from the top down. IE its actual giovernment policy from the highest level
True huh? (not sarcasm, I consider what you wrote to be accurate)
That's a shame because the Indo's I knew/know are a bloody happy and plaeasant bunch. Similarly the south of Thailand where the wife comes fromSo, the gist is that the Saudi Muslim influence is the dodgy one then?
Then why the fuck aren't we ridding ourselves of these vermin at the nest like we do with actual rodents? Instead we fucken acquiesce to their every whimOh yeah, money and oil...and world cups.
Every western power displays outrage at this insidious movement but not one of them will make the sacrifice that changes the status quo and balance of power I guessIt's the large robe wearing elephant in the room
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@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@MajorRage said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Utterly soul destroying act of complete and utter cowardice, by an individual who is forever going to be worshipped by few, but loathed to the very core by the maximum majority.
I'm not going to criticise islam here. This act is nothing but pure proof that this group, and it's followers, soldiers, caliphates, whatever, are the worst people to walk this planet since nazi germany. Push political/religous ideologies .... ok, think your bananas and don't agree or understand, but can have some sort of feeling as to how you make your position. Have children caught in the crossfire - anger about it, but again, accept that will always be part of war/battles.
But deliberately target children? At a concert? I can't comprehend it. I just can't.
I fear world war 3 has started.
I think it'd be worth spending some time looking at the various forms of Islam before absolving it of criticism. What ISIS follows is a fundamental version of Sunni Islam based on Salafi Jihadism and Wahhabism. Basically they are all about the restoration of the caliphate of early Islam - I.E. 7th century type shit. It is stated that the Koran is the literal word of Allah and is not open to interpretation - and that is what they stand by. They believe that Sharia Law should be the law of the land, and that other Muslims that do not follow Islam in this way must be "purged of apostasy" (killed) which is why the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims in their vicinity. Their entire goal is to spread Islam to the ends of the earth by any means neccessary, and that the day of judgement is near.
This form of Islam is most common in the Gulf states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which is why people like @gollum have been at pains to point out that these countries are at the heart of the problem - investing many millions of dollars erecting Mosques etc in other countries to spread this ideology. Which is why I was so angry in my first post in this thread - we turn a blind eye to this occuring (Tommy Robinson has been beating this drum for more then a decade and just gets called a racist) and then we turn around and ask retarded questions like "why is this happening?" and "how did he get radicalised?".
Right now they are actively targeting South East Asia and there have been more and more issues arising there, and from an NZ POV that's a lot closer to home.
Islam is a shitty religion, it really is, it is not just this form of Islam that inspires human rights abuses the world over, but if we are talking about terrorist attacks specifically then that form of Islam should be the focus. But either way - all of this falls under the Islam umbrella so to try and say "not Islam" is incorrect and unhelpful.
But instead of people actually educating themselves and having any kind of meaningful debate about it, the majority of people would rather pick a side (left or right) and argue with each other. And the virtue signalling is fucking vomit inducing.
I hear you NQ, I do.
But (simplistically), what about all my good good friends that are muslim and share your outrage of these murders? the ones I know have lived in SEA in harmony for generations
How are they any more culpable than us?
Apart from the randomness of where they were born, what's the difference between you and them?Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia. It's only a matter of time till they start doing the same in countries in the region with minority Muslim populations. The Phillipines have had issues with Muslim Ferals for a long time.
perhaps Jeg. however I've been to those countries countless times and worked there and stayed there and experienced them as free, boozing normal societies. I've had meetings with women ceos and the like and never seen the kind of repression associated with say, Saudi Arabia.
admittedly these are only my experiences but I must believe them over the often maligned MSM.I don't know mate but I ain't seen it first hand in Malaysia. have you?
I haven't been yet, the mrs Uncle and aunt are Muslims and live in Sarawak. We are planning to visit in the next year or so.
You can take from this article what you want but as Gollum pointed out the Saudis are very keen to spread their ideology to countries that were normally quite tolerant
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/malaysian-diplomat-the-saudi-wahhabi-threat-to-asian-security/
Yeah, I hear you mate. Bloody shame though i gotta say
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@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@MajorRage said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Utterly soul destroying act of complete and utter cowardice, by an individual who is forever going to be worshipped by few, but loathed to the very core by the maximum majority.
I'm not going to criticise islam here. This act is nothing but pure proof that this group, and it's followers, soldiers, caliphates, whatever, are the worst people to walk this planet since nazi germany. Push political/religous ideologies .... ok, think your bananas and don't agree or understand, but can have some sort of feeling as to how you make your position. Have children caught in the crossfire - anger about it, but again, accept that will always be part of war/battles.
But deliberately target children? At a concert? I can't comprehend it. I just can't.
I fear world war 3 has started.
I think it'd be worth spending some time looking at the various forms of Islam before absolving it of criticism. What ISIS follows is a fundamental version of Sunni Islam based on Salafi Jihadism and Wahhabism. Basically they are all about the restoration of the caliphate of early Islam - I.E. 7th century type shit. It is stated that the Koran is the literal word of Allah and is not open to interpretation - and that is what they stand by. They believe that Sharia Law should be the law of the land, and that other Muslims that do not follow Islam in this way must be "purged of apostasy" (killed) which is why the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims in their vicinity. Their entire goal is to spread Islam to the ends of the earth by any means neccessary, and that the day of judgement is near.
This form of Islam is most common in the Gulf states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which is why people like @gollum have been at pains to point out that these countries are at the heart of the problem - investing many millions of dollars erecting Mosques etc in other countries to spread this ideology. Which is why I was so angry in my first post in this thread - we turn a blind eye to this occuring (Tommy Robinson has been beating this drum for more then a decade and just gets called a racist) and then we turn around and ask retarded questions like "why is this happening?" and "how did he get radicalised?".
Right now they are actively targeting South East Asia and there have been more and more issues arising there, and from an NZ POV that's a lot closer to home.
Islam is a shitty religion, it really is, it is not just this form of Islam that inspires human rights abuses the world over, but if we are talking about terrorist attacks specifically then that form of Islam should be the focus. But either way - all of this falls under the Islam umbrella so to try and say "not Islam" is incorrect and unhelpful.
But instead of people actually educating themselves and having any kind of meaningful debate about it, the majority of people would rather pick a side (left or right) and argue with each other. And the virtue signalling is fucking vomit inducing.
I hear you NQ, I do.
But (simplistically), what about all my good good friends that are muslim and share your outrage of these murders? the ones I know have lived in SEA in harmony for generations
How are they any more culpable than us?
Apart from the randomness of where they were born, what's the difference between you and them?Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia. It's only a matter of time till they start doing the same in countries in the region with minority Muslim populations. The Phillipines have had issues with Muslim Ferals for a long time.
perhaps Jeg. however I've been to those countries countless times and worked there and stayed there and experienced them as free, boozing normal societies. I've had meetings with women ceos and the like and never seen the kind of repression associated with say, Saudi Arabia.
admittedly these are only my experiences but I must believe them over the often maligned MSM.I don't know mate but I ain't seen it first hand in Malaysia. have you?
Malaysia is fine. For now. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are like fucking cancers. As for ISIS, why the fuck can't we, the West, hit them where it hurts? Fuck up their internet? freeze their money? Send a
detachment of special forces over packing those fuck off sniper rifles and a shit ton of ammo to turn Mosul into an Easter bunny hunt -
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@jegga said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@MajorRage said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Utterly soul destroying act of complete and utter cowardice, by an individual who is forever going to be worshipped by few, but loathed to the very core by the maximum majority.
I'm not going to criticise islam here. This act is nothing but pure proof that this group, and it's followers, soldiers, caliphates, whatever, are the worst people to walk this planet since nazi germany. Push political/religous ideologies .... ok, think your bananas and don't agree or understand, but can have some sort of feeling as to how you make your position. Have children caught in the crossfire - anger about it, but again, accept that will always be part of war/battles.
But deliberately target children? At a concert? I can't comprehend it. I just can't.
I fear world war 3 has started.
I think it'd be worth spending some time looking at the various forms of Islam before absolving it of criticism. What ISIS follows is a fundamental version of Sunni Islam based on Salafi Jihadism and Wahhabism. Basically they are all about the restoration of the caliphate of early Islam - I.E. 7th century type shit. It is stated that the Koran is the literal word of Allah and is not open to interpretation - and that is what they stand by. They believe that Sharia Law should be the law of the land, and that other Muslims that do not follow Islam in this way must be "purged of apostasy" (killed) which is why the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims in their vicinity. Their entire goal is to spread Islam to the ends of the earth by any means neccessary, and that the day of judgement is near.
This form of Islam is most common in the Gulf states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which is why people like @gollum have been at pains to point out that these countries are at the heart of the problem - investing many millions of dollars erecting Mosques etc in other countries to spread this ideology. Which is why I was so angry in my first post in this thread - we turn a blind eye to this occuring (Tommy Robinson has been beating this drum for more then a decade and just gets called a racist) and then we turn around and ask retarded questions like "why is this happening?" and "how did he get radicalised?".
Right now they are actively targeting South East Asia and there have been more and more issues arising there, and from an NZ POV that's a lot closer to home.
Islam is a shitty religion, it really is, it is not just this form of Islam that inspires human rights abuses the world over, but if we are talking about terrorist attacks specifically then that form of Islam should be the focus. But either way - all of this falls under the Islam umbrella so to try and say "not Islam" is incorrect and unhelpful.
But instead of people actually educating themselves and having any kind of meaningful debate about it, the majority of people would rather pick a side (left or right) and argue with each other. And the virtue signalling is fucking vomit inducing.
I hear you NQ, I do.
But (simplistically), what about all my good good friends that are muslim and share your outrage of these murders? the ones I know have lived in SEA in harmony for generations
How are they any more culpable than us?
Apart from the randomness of where they were born, what's the difference between you and them?Enjoy it while it lasts , Saudi hate preachers are splashing cash around Malaysia and Indonesia. It's only a matter of time till they start doing the same in countries in the region with minority Muslim populations. The Phillipines have had issues with Muslim Ferals for a long time.
perhaps Jeg. however I've been to those countries countless times and worked there and stayed there and experienced them as free, boozing normal societies. I've had meetings with women ceos and the like and never seen the kind of repression associated with say, Saudi Arabia.
admittedly these are only my experiences but I must believe them over the often maligned MSM.I don't know mate but I ain't seen it first hand in Malaysia. have you?
I haven't been yet, the mrs Uncle and aunt are Muslims and live in Sarawak. We are planning to visit in the next year or so.
You can take from this article what you want but as Gollum pointed out the Saudis are very keen to spread their ideology to countries that were normally quite tolerant
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/malaysian-diplomat-the-saudi-wahhabi-threat-to-asian-security/
Yeah, I hear you mate. Bloody shame though i gotta say
Check out the size of the bribe here
And the $28 billion trade deal
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Not all of Indonesia has been a shining light. Aceh's always been pretty hardcore. Political repression might have helped foster that, although one of the concessions later granted was greater scope for Sharia law, so make of that what you will.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Not all of Indonesia has been a shining light. Aceh's always been pretty hardcore. Political repression might have helped foster that, although one of the concessions later granted was greater scope for Sharia law, so make of that what you will.
Spot on, Aceh is a tricky on in that its a bit like the Tamil tigers in Sri Lanka, they want (and were promised) independance. But they have a shit ton of oil. So no one is giving them shit.
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So fellas, and forgive my slowness - confirmation bias is a disease ;), can we conclude that the Saudis (and Qataris) are balls deep in this
terrorismcowardly murdering way of conquering, perhaps even in a method of shoring up power and influence for a post oil-reliant world, and that dufus with the orange hair's only notable achievement thus far is sell them more murder weapons?Apologies for the slow uptake (perhaps other ferners might benefit from my simplicity), but are those Wahabis (read Saudis and Qataris) a similar threat as nazis, communists were?
Except the west falls over backwards to accomodate them?
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@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Not all of Indonesia has been a shining light. Aceh's always been pretty hardcore. Political repression might have helped foster that, although one of the concessions later granted was greater scope for Sharia law, so make of that what you will.
Spot on, Aceh is a tricky on in that its a bit like the Tamil tigers in Sri Lanka, they want (and were promised) independance. But they have a shit ton of oil. So no one is giving them shit.
Off topic but West Papua is exactly the same, many there fighting for independance but they have a shit ton of gold and copper so that aint happening any time soon.
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@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
So fellas, and forgive my slowness - confirmation bias is a disease ;), can we conclude that the Saudis (and Qataris) are balls deep in this
terrorismcowardly murdering way of conquering, perhaps even in a method of shoring up power and influence for a post oil-reliant world, and that dufus with the orange hair's only notable achievement thus far is sell them more murder weapons?Apologies for the slow uptake (perhaps other ferners might benefit from my simplicity), but are those Wahabis (read Saudis and Qataris) a similar threat as nazis, communists were?
Except the west falls over backwards to accomodate them?
Worse than the commies. You can't buy out these nutjobs
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@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Not all of Indonesia has been a shining light. Aceh's always been pretty hardcore. Political repression might have helped foster that, although one of the concessions later granted was greater scope for Sharia law, so make of that what you will.
Spot on, Aceh is a tricky on in that its a bit like the Tamil tigers in Sri Lanka, they want (and were promised) independance. But they have a shit ton of oil. So no one is giving them shit.
But, the fact is they've always been much more religious than the rest of Indonesia.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Not all of Indonesia has been a shining light. Aceh's always been pretty hardcore. Political repression might have helped foster that, although one of the concessions later granted was greater scope for Sharia law, so make of that what you will.
Spot on, Aceh is a tricky on in that its a bit like the Tamil tigers in Sri Lanka, they want (and were promised) independance. But they have a shit ton of oil. So no one is giving them shit.
But, the fact is they've always been much more religious than the rest of Indonesia.
But unlike the Saudis they aren't trying to spread their shit around the world
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@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
So fellas, and forgive my slowness - confirmation bias is a disease ;), can we conclude that the Saudis (and Qataris) are balls deep in this
terrorismcowardly murdering way of conquering, perhaps even in a method of shoring up power and influence for a post oil-reliant world, and that dufus with the orange hair's only notable achievement thus far is sell them more murder weapons?Apologies for the slow uptake (perhaps other ferners might benefit from my simplicity), but are those Wahabis (read Saudis and Qataris) a similar threat as nazis, communists were?
Except the west falls over backwards to accomodate them?
They export their terrorists to stop them causing shit at home , it started when one of the most important mosques in Mecca was taken over by some losers in the 70s and the Saudis cracked down on the western influences there.
Manchester Arena Explosion