-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
"Change"
"Can we do it? Yes we can!"
and?
Whataboutery doesn't change the point at all.
-
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
It is a mixture of both, of course Trump has done things that I dont like or that dont follow 'protocol', but he has not broken any laws. The way many people and the media react is completely and utterly out of control.
'Drain the Swamp' is getting less and less propaganda and more like harsh reality as you see the vitriol, leaks and media hatred towards him. You can see it as a catch phrase, or you can see it as a goal.
As for fake news, that is VERY much a reality, CNN colluding with Clinton, Washington Post and New York Times writing untrue articles, always on the attack in opinion pieces, NOT sourcing material at all, or very badly. It isn't about being 100% correct it is about being correct enough so as to now lead readers to complete and utterly wrong conclusions. Just saying you have sources means absolutely squat... the amount of anonymous sources for these stories is through the roof. The amount of leaking is through the roof. You see that as Trumps fault, I dont, I see it as a previous administration and left wing bureaucrats doing absolutely everything they ca to 'resist'.. oh heck is that a catchphrase? -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Just to clarify something, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't just 'have the right' to declassify information as and when he feels like it. There is a process to follow including an executive order.
Int networks take a long time to build and a short time to destroy.
OK I let this slide as I didnt have the information and was ignorant about it, but I was just watching a senator n the intel committee Senator Risch say pretty much exactly the opposite to what you claim.
Can you give a source for your claim? -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
"Change"
"Can we do it? Yes we can!"
and?
Whataboutery doesn't change the point at all.
Your point is also wrong because the Fake News and Drain the Swamp mean real things to real people. To just belittle them to nothing but catchphrases may suit his opponents but doesnt change the meaning and effect to others.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Just to clarify something, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't just 'have the right' to declassify information as and when he feels like it. There is a process to follow including an executive order.
Int networks take a long time to build and a short time to destroy.
OK I let this slide as I didnt have the information and was ignorant about it, but I was just watching a senator n the intel committee Senator Risch say pretty much exactly the opposite to what you claim.
Can you give a source for your claim?I will track something down later. I could have the context wrong and the rules may be around declassification of documents themselves.
I also read something this morning that implied he wasn't breaking any laws as he can ultimately decide what is and isn't classified.
It's really the decision making itself that is the issue though. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
It is a mixture of both, of course Trump has done things that I dont like or that dont follow 'protocol', but he has not broken any laws. The way many people and the media react is completely and utterly out of control.
'Drain the Swamp' is getting less and less propaganda and more like harsh reality as you see the vitriol, leaks and media hatred towards him. You can see it as a catch phrase, or you can see it as a goal.
As for fake news, that is VERY much a reality, CNN colluding with Clinton, Washington Post and New York Times writing untrue articles, always on the attack in opinion pieces, NOT sourcing material at all, or very badly. It isn't about being 100% correct it is about being correct enough so as to now lead readers to complete and utterly wrong conclusions. Just saying you have sources means absolutely squat... the amount of anonymous sources for these stories is through the roof. The amount of leaking is through the roof. You see that as Trumps fault, I dont, I see it as a previous administration and left wing bureaucrats doing absolutely everything they ca to 'resist'.. oh heck is that a catchphrase?How are negative opinion pieces fake? They are opinions just like yours or mine.
My point is that while there are examples of stories that have not been checked out well enough, everything is being decried as fake including stories that do have checked out sources. It has become a catchphrase to shift blame.
No matter how or where the stories come from or the intention of the leakers, if they are true then they are true.
Dismissing sources because they are anonymous is a bit silly as well. You really think someone is going to put their name to stuff? Anonymous sources have been and always will be part of journalism.
It isn't anonymous sources that issue statements that turn out to be lies. It isn't anonymous sources that continue to back up a guy that lies about connections with a foreign power (take your pick on two if you want). It isn't anonymous sources or fake news that break security protocols ,,,,
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
It's also a nice dream to sheet it back to derangement syndrome on occasions when he does err.
I haven't read through the ins and outs of the immigration restrictions and the proposed methods since it first started (and won't die in a ditch over it accordingly). I just remember thinking there were more subtle and more effective policy ways to achieve exactly the same thing - or even stronger immigration restrictions - without risking it via a judge...
Especially as the President and his Administration could hardly have been surprised by the desperation of his opposition to throw spanners in the works - given the level of hysteria since the election... this Administration will have to dot all the i's and cross all the t's more than most.
-
Since WaPo and NYT are so fond of anonymous sources, I figured why not post a story with some named sources. .
This is the family spokesperson mentioned in the article.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/brad-bauman-seth-rich-dnc-family-democrat-pastorum-group-wikileaks/ -
Here's some more background on the Wikileaks claims that Fox News made:
Fox News on Tuesday morning joined in the chorus, publishing a lead story on its website about the "DC MURDER MYSTERY." The story said Wheeler had made the claim Wikileaks had been in contact with Rich. It added that a federal investigator, who it said had spoken on the condition of anonymity, corroborated it.
But Tuesday afternoon, Wheeler told CNN he had no evidence to suggest Rich had contacted Wikileaks before his death.
Wheeler instead said he only learned about the possible existence of such evidence through the reporter he spoke to for the FoxNews.com story. He explained that the comments he made to WTTG-TV were intended to simply preview Fox News' Tuesday story. The WTTG-TV news director did not respond to multiple requests for comment.
"I only got that [information] from the reporter at Fox News," Wheeler told CNN.
Asked about a quote attributed to him in the Fox News story in which he said his "investigation up to this point shows there was some degree of email exchange between Seth Rich and Wikileaks," Wheeler said he was referring to information that had already been reported in the media.
A Fox News spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment by the time of publication.
-
-
@Tim I thought it was better to post a more balanced version. I was not aware Wheeler had retracted what he said, so thanks for that.
However, what about this part of the Fox report ?
"An FBI forensic report of Rich's computer -- generated within 96 hours after Rich's murder -- showed he made contact with WikiLeaks through Gavin MacFadyen, a now-deceased American investigative reporter, documentary filmmaker, and director of WikiLeaks who was living in London at the time, the federal source told Fox News.“I have seen and read the emails between Seth Rich and WikiLeaks,” the federal investigator told Fox News, confirming the MacFadyen connection. He said the emails are in possession of the FBI, while the stalled case is in the hands of the Washington Police Department."
-
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
It is a mixture of both, of course Trump has done things that I dont like or that dont follow 'protocol', but he has not broken any laws. The way many people and the media react is completely and utterly out of control.
'Drain the Swamp' is getting less and less propaganda and more like harsh reality as you see the vitriol, leaks and media hatred towards him. You can see it as a catch phrase, or you can see it as a goal.
As for fake news, that is VERY much a reality, CNN colluding with Clinton, Washington Post and New York Times writing untrue articles, always on the attack in opinion pieces, NOT sourcing material at all, or very badly. It isn't about being 100% correct it is about being correct enough so as to now lead readers to complete and utterly wrong conclusions. Just saying you have sources means absolutely squat... the amount of anonymous sources for these stories is through the roof. The amount of leaking is through the roof. You see that as Trumps fault, I dont, I see it as a previous administration and left wing bureaucrats doing absolutely everything they ca to 'resist'.. oh heck is that a catchphrase?How are negative opinion pieces fake? They are opinions just like yours or mine.
My point is that while there are examples of stories that have not been checked out well enough, everything is being decried as fake including stories that do have checked out sources. It has become a catchphrase to shift blame.
No matter how or where the stories come from or the intention of the leakers, if they are true then they are true.
Dismissing sources because they are anonymous is a bit silly as well. You really think someone is going to put their name to stuff? Anonymous sources have been and always will be part of journalism.
It isn't anonymous sources that issue statements that turn out to be lies. It isn't anonymous sources that continue to back up a guy that lies about connections with a foreign power (take your pick on two if you want). It isn't anonymous sources or fake news that break security protocols ,,,,
Where did I say that opinions were fake??
And anonymous sources are often just a cop out nowadays. Especially when it is "former officials". When was the last time any of these outlets put a name to any of these claims? -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
"Change"
"Can we do it? Yes we can!"
and?
Whataboutery doesn't change the point at all.
What was your point? That saying fake news or drain the swamp is merely just propaganda? That there is absolutely no basis for using these terms? Unfortunately there very much is. Trump could very well be as dodgy and incompetent as the media claim, but he's not the reason they have very little credibility or trust. And they're doing everything they can to make sure they never win that trust back.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel seems to me like there is a pretty strong body of work coming out of his own mouth and twitter account that makes the case for dodgy or incompetent... which then gives every unconfirmed negative story that wee bit more credibility... i maintain my position since pre-election: the man is simply an idiot.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
"Change"
"Can we do it? Yes we can!"
and?
Whataboutery doesn't change the point at all.
What was your point? That saying fake news or drain the swamp is merely just propaganda? That there is absolutely no basis for using these terms? Unfortunately there very much is. Trump could very well be as dodgy and incompetent as the media claim, but he's not the reason they have very little credibility or trust. And they're doing everything they can to make sure they never win that trust back.
Their credibility is only failing in the eyes of some because they are drinking the Kool-aid that everything they say is false.
-
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel seems to me like there is a pretty strong body of work coming out of his own mouth and twitter account that makes the case for dodgy or incompetent... which then gives every unconfirmed negative story that wee bit more credibility... i maintain my position since pre-election: the man is simply an idiot.
Yes, an idiot who just stumbled into the job of PONTUS.
He may be arrogant, rude and fat, but an idiot? I don't think so.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel seems to me like there is a pretty strong body of work coming out of his own mouth and twitter account that makes the case for dodgy or incompetent... which then gives every unconfirmed negative story that wee bit more credibility... i maintain my position since pre-election: the man is simply an idiot.
Yes, an idiot who just stumbled into the job of PONTUS.
He may be arrogant, rude and fat, but an idiot? I don't think so.
that's basically the difference between direct evidence and circumstantial evidence... people assume he must be smart because he won the election and/or is rich - despite the direct evidence of his behaviour. i just don't see a smart person making threats about tapes, or contradicting his own staff re comey. and that's just this week.
i don't really think arnie or jesse the body ventura won election because of their brains either. -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Either way there is a impulsiveness about how he operates, maverick-esque, that raises the risk of big fuck ups imo. But by the same token it also lets him bull through red tape or folks trying to slow things down to score points (aka politics!).
If he'd been a bit more thoughtful or a bit less maverick-esque I reckon he'd have his immigration policy changes through without any court dramas by now. The classic case of his strengths also being his weakness at times...
You are dreaming mate. The Trump derangement is far to strong. If he calls a color black... he is told it is white...(and rascist)
You don't really think that his problems are caused by everyone else and not his own actions?
Surely blaming "Trump derangement syndrome" or whatever other catch phrase you want to attach is having your head in the sand and ignoring his own responsibilities for his actions.Yes, there are people who jump at his every moment. There are also plenty of people who see his bumbling and arrogance for what it is and fairly judge it so.
It's like the catch phrase propaganda of "drain the swamp" (pulled out whenever an incumbent politician/public servant points out a failing as if they are the problem.
Or like "fake news" used to dismiss any reporting that is negative. There is fake news around but it isn't when a report is based on information from a credible, checked out source. It may not have the facts 100% correct but is well based in truth enough to draw the facts out.Swallowing these catch phrases is swallowing the propaganda.
"Change"
"Can we do it? Yes we can!"
and?
Whataboutery doesn't change the point at all.
What was your point? That saying fake news or drain the swamp is merely just propaganda? That there is absolutely no basis for using these terms? Unfortunately there very much is. Trump could very well be as dodgy and incompetent as the media claim, but he's not the reason they have very little credibility or trust. And they're doing everything they can to make sure they never win that trust back.
Their credibility is only failing in the eyes of some because they are drinking the Kool-aid that everything they say is false.
Swallowing the propaganda and drinking the Kool-aid. Wow, aren't you on a role today.
The irony is breathtaking
US Politics