Six Nations 2017
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Itoje would comfortably win a 'who has had the most hype' battle with Lawes.
Lawes would also be under pressure from Ford and Launchbury on the front from an England perspective.
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@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
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Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
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@Margin_Walker Ah. Misunderstanding. OK, as you were.
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2017:
@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
Lawes seems to be excellent at smashing small backs who are in the middle of passing.
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@Margin_Walker Speaking of players hyped beyond reason* on their way up, this is another chapter for Danny's memoirs... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38891475
(* not to imply that he wasn't the most gifted English flyhalf of his generation. Because in my view, having followed his progress at every level, he was. In some parallel universe Brian Ashton built a team around him, and all was well. But such poor judgment off the park, it seems)
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@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
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@Kiwidom In fairness to Sinbad, he was broken a lot of the times when he might have had an opportunity to show his talents on the international stage, and on the occasions he wasn't, the England management (misguidedly) decided they didn't need him. So unless you watched a lot of Glaaaawster games through the noughties you could be forgiven for wondering what the buzz was all about. Incidentlally, it was the dummy pop pass and regather before he got to Lomu that was the clever bit, after that it was just an outside arc and a foot race., which he would generally have been favourite to win.
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I think it's great that fans have a player in their side that they consider the best around. I think a bit of hype adds something to following the team. It's not like we in NZ don't fall over ourselves to anoint all our players as the best in their position, even when they are in ordinary form.
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@mariner4life but but but they play for the best team, which makes them the best, Shirley?
Always easier to make claims like that of players you watch more than others, which is why we struggle with claims some players are better, and vice versa.
The added intrigue is that while England are in good form on a streak, they are yet to play the ABs so there are plenty of twats who rubbish their record as it doesn't include having played the ABs (similarly the SA 2007 RWC win)
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@Kiwidom said in Six Nations 2017:
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
That (bolded) sort of comment always makes me laugh. Certainly there are danger men but rugby is first and foremost a team game. Even the likes of Dan Carter would struggle to make an impact in a team of flids.
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2017:
@Kiwidom said in Six Nations 2017:
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
That (bolded) sort of comment always makes me laugh. Certainly there are danger men but rugby is first and foremost a team game. Even the likes of Dan Carter would struggle to make an impact in a team of flids.
Which he is proving this season
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I'm not sold on the idea Itoje has got more hype in England than, say, Ardie Savea got last year in NZ... every country hypes up their players. NZ is at least as bad, if not worse, than anywhere else.
And I'd still bet my house on Itoje winning at least a couple of world player of the year awards before he is done. Tho' it looks like he'll be at 6 again this weekend, with Harrison at 7. Tom Woods is broken & Haskel apparently still not quite match fit.
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@gollum said in Six Nations 2017:
I'm not sold on the idea Itoje has got more hype in England than, say, Ardie Savea got last year in NZ... every country hypes up their players. NZ is at least as bad, if not worse, than anywhere else.
And I'd still bet my house on Itoje winning at least a couple of world player of the year awards before he is done. Tho' it looks like he'll be at 6 again this weekend, with Harrison at 7. Tom Woods is broken & Haskel apparently still not quite match fit.
If that's the case Wales would be stupid not to focus on winning/spoiling the breakdowns. It would be an area of advantage for sure.
England are under pressure from themselves to play a more open style (especially after last week). Stop them getting any rhythm and it will be hard for them to play the way they want to. Then they'll have to either decide to just bash the game out or push passes. -
Harrison has been released with Clifford coming in and likely to start at 7 (unless they are bluffing about Haskell's match fitness. Still very makeshift, but Clifford is at least an upgrade on Harrison
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Do'h. Clifford... yes thats slightly better. But not much.
Matt "the next England 7" Kvesic has really shit the bed to have fallen this far. On the plus side sounds like Falatau isn't fit
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Kvesic's probably a little unlucky. Firstly for playing for an under-performing club side for so long and secondly for timing his quiet season form wise with one where there may have been an opportunity for him.
He certainly offers something different, but I don't think he's the kind of seven Jones has been that bothered about. Although interestingly he did name U20s eligible Will Evans in the EPS announced last summer who's a similar style of openside
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Yep, either he changed his mind, or thought Kvesic wasn't up to it. Or more likely, a bit of both.
TBF there has been a lack of real test quality back rowers coming through (outside of Billy V) in recent years for England. Early days but I don't think Harrison or Clifford have really shown enough to indicate that they will have successful test careers and I'm not really counting Hughes as he's a pretty blatant poach.
The run up to 2019 will be interesting though as Haskell and Robshaw will be hard pressed to make it and there are a stack of real prospects coming through all around the same age (18 - 20) in Evans, Curry brothers, Mercer, Underhill etc. Would be surprised if at least a couple of them didn't force themselves into the conversation.
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@gollum Successive England coaches have had a look at Kvesic and then decided he's not got it. Odd as he produces the goods time and again at club level and has never really been given the chance at International level. Whilst he seems to have been around forever as the coming man he is actually still only 24.
He's probably a bit on the small side in as much as England seem to think big is beautiful and I guess we would have to adopt a slightly different game plan to accommodate him, but I for one would like to see this tried.
Anyway, he's off to Exeter in the close season and it will be interesting to see what Rob Baxter can do with him.
