Biggest Tool in World Sport
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@mariner4life said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@barbarian people say exactly the same about Mundine. At what point are we allowed to only judge the public persona.
I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but it's not a public persona; that's him.
I get the "getting by with minimal effort thing" it's almost my personal mantra FFS. And if he's cool with it, then good on the lad, fill your boots.
Maybe i am guilty of projecting my own values on to him, as wasted talent pisses me off. I had to work extra hard for anything i ever "achieved" in sport, and to see someone with natural ability just cruising and appearing to not give a fuck about any of it gets to me.
I judge people harshly by how they face adversity; what do you do when it gets hard?
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Might be a high bar but I always apply the Allblack test to sportsmen, i.e. how I would view them if they were an Allblack. I think it's fair to say that a piston wristed gibbon with an attitude like Kyrgios wouldn't get near selection. Just because he's open about being a cockhead isn't something to admire or "a breath of fresh air" and I can never get my head around those defending him for this.
I heard an interview with former French tennis star Henry Leconte and he said that Kyrgios will regret this later in life because time goes so fast and your career will be over before you know it.
He's literally holding a lotto ticket and he claims it bores him. Maybe the dickhead should spend some time in an office or a factory at the pay level most 21 year olds get. Then he might discover that his awful boring existence isn't so bad after all. Twat.
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@mariner4life said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Virgil i understand about the interview stuff, but the Auckland thing is a bit rough, she even said the other day in an unrelated presser at the Open how disappointed she was not to get to play in Auckland, she really wanted to.
She's always been a bit prickly, this is nothing new really.
The Auckland stuff was blown out of proportion (see what I did there...). She said she enjoyed her stay but found the windy conditions the most difficult she had ever experienced. Which I'm sure is true. Hardly controversial.
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@Donsteppa said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Siam If he was really brave in secure in himself he would quit the job he doesn't like - as it is he's just a shitty contractor with a poor work effort to go go with being a twat.
Why should he quit though? He earns a lot of money by doing hardly any work. I doubt he would enjoy another job anymore. Kyrgios has to maintain certain performance standards in order to have a career and he does maintain those standards. If he can maintain those standards while putting in no effort, I can't blame him for continuing to do that. Tennis fans can hate him if they want but I don't think Kyrgios cares about that.
I don't care if he stays or goes, but don't cry about how you hate the game all the time if you stay.
Clearly he doesn't maintain his standards which is why he's been suspended in the past.
He gets asked the question in a press conference though. He was asked why he lost and he said he didn't prepare well enough. He was asked why he didn't prepare well enough and he said he preferred to play basketball. Kyrgios seems to me like he doesn't want to do any media at all but if he doesn't show up he will get lambasted in the press (and will be fined more). I don't know what Kyrgios was meant to say? Should he have lied about how much preparation he did? If Kyrgios is asked whether or not he enjoys tennis, I would rather he answers that question honestly.
Kyrgios has been suspended in the past but he is still the number 13 in the world and he is compensated accordingly. The most important part of his job is to win and he is terrific at that.
Imagine anyone else being interviewed in the press on their day job after a loss/something going wrong and saying they'd prefer to play basketball rather than doing whatever it is that the person ultimately paying the bills for them pays them to do. It could very well be an honest answer, but I know for one I'd be out of job in a big hurry...
But that's my point. Kyrgios only gets paid for winning. He isn't a salaried professional as you presumably are. Kyrgios lost in the second round because he didn't prepare well enough and because he didn't prepare well enough he only got paid $80,000. If Kyrgios put in the effort and won the tournament, he could have got 3.7 million. That seems like an adequate punishment for ill-preparedness.
You get paid a certain amount because your boss expects you to perform at that level. Take a salaried professional like Julian Savea. He gets paid what he gets paid because he is expected to be fit and score tries. If he doesn't meet those expectations, he earns almost the exact same amount of money. If he acted like Kyrgios, it would be unacceptable because he has signed a contract and is expected to meet standards.
Kyrgios isn't representing anyone. He doesn't receive a salary to play tennis well. The Aussie Open pays out the same amount of money regardless of who wins.
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Don't players get paid appearance fees?
No doubt Serena would have been paid just as much if not more then the eventual winner of the Auckland tournament.
So if K is paid money to appear at a tournament, occasionally as the top seed doesn't he have a responsibility to perform to his best and actually give a shit? -
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
Might be a high bar but I always apply the Allblack test to sportsmen, i.e. how I would view them if they were an Allblack. I think it's fair to say that a piston wristed gibbon with an attitude like Kyrgios wouldn't get near selection. Just because he's open about being a cockhead isn't something to admire or "a breath of fresh air" and I can never get my head around those defending him for this.
I heard an interview with former French tennis star Henry Leconte and he said that Kyrgios will regret this later in life because time goes so fast and your career will be over before you know it.
He's literally holding a lotto ticket and he claims it bores him. Maybe the dickhead should spend some time in an office or a factory at the pay level most 21 year olds get. Then he might discover that his awful boring existence isn't so bad after all. Twat.
But he isn't an All Black. He is an individual representing himself. He doesn't have teammates or a history to live up to. He just has his name and he can do with that as he wishes. He is a contractor and not an employee. I presume only the grandslams are forced to invite him?
Has Kyrgios actually said that he has an awful, boring existence? I just think he has said he doesn't particularly like doing tennis training. I never hear any "woe is me" from Kyrgios. I don't follow everything he says admittedly.
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@Virgil said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
Don't players get paid appearance fees?
No doubt Serena would have been paid just as much if not more then the eventual winner of the Auckland tournament.
So if K is paid money to appear at a tournament, occasionally as the top seed doesn't he have a responsibility to perform to his best and actually give a shit?That would depend on the contract. If you give Kyrgios an appearance fee, you do so at your own risk. If any tennis tournament think that Kyrgios has breached his contract, they can go through the court system or just not invite him back.
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@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
Might be a high bar but I always apply the Allblack test to sportsmen, i.e. how I would view them if they were an Allblack. I think it's fair to say that a piston wristed gibbon with an attitude like Kyrgios wouldn't get near selection. Just because he's open about being a cockhead isn't something to admire or "a breath of fresh air" and I can never get my head around those defending him for this.
I heard an interview with former French tennis star Henry Leconte and he said that Kyrgios will regret this later in life because time goes so fast and your career will be over before you know it.
He's literally holding a lotto ticket and he claims it bores him. Maybe the dickhead should spend some time in an office or a factory at the pay level most 21 year olds get. Then he might discover that his awful boring existence isn't so bad after all. Twat.
But he isn't an All Black. He is an individual representing himself. He doesn't have teammates or a history to live up to. He just has his name and he can do with that as he wishes. He is a contractor and not an employee. I presume only the grandslams are forced to invite him?
Has Kyrgios actually said that he has an awful, boring existence? I just think he has said he doesn't particularly like doing tennis training. I never hear any "woe is me" from Kyrgios. I don't follow everything he says admittedly.
No shit Hydro. I used that as a (high) benchmark for how I would like sportsmen to conduct themselves. I never said K couldn't do what he wants or the lotto ticket wasn't his to piss away. That doesn't make him less of a twat or, inexplicably, someone to be admired.
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He does get provoked by the media a bit. He showed his bad side early in his career and the media know if they ask him some hard questions they'll get a reaction. Compared to say Federer who gets very light questions by comparison. Not excusing his behavior but the media love him for that reason which is why we hear about him a lot.
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@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Donsteppa said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Siam If he was really brave in secure in himself he would quit the job he doesn't like - as it is he's just a shitty contractor with a poor work effort to go go with being a twat.
Why should he quit though? He earns a lot of money by doing hardly any work. I doubt he would enjoy another job anymore. Kyrgios has to maintain certain performance standards in order to have a career and he does maintain those standards. If he can maintain those standards while putting in no effort, I can't blame him for continuing to do that. Tennis fans can hate him if they want but I don't think Kyrgios cares about that.
I don't care if he stays or goes, but don't cry about how you hate the game all the time if you stay.
Clearly he doesn't maintain his standards which is why he's been suspended in the past.
He gets asked the question in a press conference though. He was asked why he lost and he said he didn't prepare well enough. He was asked why he didn't prepare well enough and he said he preferred to play basketball. Kyrgios seems to me like he doesn't want to do any media at all but if he doesn't show up he will get lambasted in the press (and will be fined more). I don't know what Kyrgios was meant to say? Should he have lied about how much preparation he did? If Kyrgios is asked whether or not he enjoys tennis, I would rather he answers that question honestly.
Kyrgios has been suspended in the past but he is still the number 13 in the world and he is compensated accordingly. The most important part of his job is to win and he is terrific at that.
Imagine anyone else being interviewed in the press on their day job after a loss/something going wrong and saying they'd prefer to play basketball rather than doing whatever it is that the person ultimately paying the bills for them pays them to do. It could very well be an honest answer, but I know for one I'd be out of job in a big hurry...
But that's my point. Kyrgios only gets paid for winning. He isn't a salaried professional as you presumably are. Kyrgios lost in the second round because he didn't prepare well enough and because he didn't prepare well enough he only got paid $80,000. If Kyrgios put in the effort and won the tournament, he could have got 3.7 million. That seems like an adequate punishment for ill-preparedness.
You get paid a certain amount because your boss expects you to perform at that level. Take a salaried professional like Julian Savea. He gets paid what he gets paid because he is expected to be fit and score tries. If he doesn't meet those expectations, he earns almost the exact same amount of money. If he acted like Kyrgios, it would be unacceptable because he has signed a contract and is expected to meet standards.
Kyrgios isn't representing anyone. He doesn't receive a salary to play tennis well. The Aussie Open pays out the same amount of money regardless of who wins.
And for all that he's not on salary or contract he's still managed to get himself suspended once already by the ATP. I suspect they're taking as dim a view of him as McEnroe is... thin ice...
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@Donsteppa said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Donsteppa said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Siam If he was really brave in secure in himself he would quit the job he doesn't like - as it is he's just a shitty contractor with a poor work effort to go go with being a twat.
Why should he quit though? He earns a lot of money by doing hardly any work. I doubt he would enjoy another job anymore. Kyrgios has to maintain certain performance standards in order to have a career and he does maintain those standards. If he can maintain those standards while putting in no effort, I can't blame him for continuing to do that. Tennis fans can hate him if they want but I don't think Kyrgios cares about that.
I don't care if he stays or goes, but don't cry about how you hate the game all the time if you stay.
Clearly he doesn't maintain his standards which is why he's been suspended in the past.
He gets asked the question in a press conference though. He was asked why he lost and he said he didn't prepare well enough. He was asked why he didn't prepare well enough and he said he preferred to play basketball. Kyrgios seems to me like he doesn't want to do any media at all but if he doesn't show up he will get lambasted in the press (and will be fined more). I don't know what Kyrgios was meant to say? Should he have lied about how much preparation he did? If Kyrgios is asked whether or not he enjoys tennis, I would rather he answers that question honestly.
Kyrgios has been suspended in the past but he is still the number 13 in the world and he is compensated accordingly. The most important part of his job is to win and he is terrific at that.
Imagine anyone else being interviewed in the press on their day job after a loss/something going wrong and saying they'd prefer to play basketball rather than doing whatever it is that the person ultimately paying the bills for them pays them to do. It could very well be an honest answer, but I know for one I'd be out of job in a big hurry...
But that's my point. Kyrgios only gets paid for winning. He isn't a salaried professional as you presumably are. Kyrgios lost in the second round because he didn't prepare well enough and because he didn't prepare well enough he only got paid $80,000. If Kyrgios put in the effort and won the tournament, he could have got 3.7 million. That seems like an adequate punishment for ill-preparedness.
You get paid a certain amount because your boss expects you to perform at that level. Take a salaried professional like Julian Savea. He gets paid what he gets paid because he is expected to be fit and score tries. If he doesn't meet those expectations, he earns almost the exact same amount of money. If he acted like Kyrgios, it would be unacceptable because he has signed a contract and is expected to meet standards.
Kyrgios isn't representing anyone. He doesn't receive a salary to play tennis well. The Aussie Open pays out the same amount of money regardless of who wins.
And for all that he's not on salary or contract he's still managed to get himself suspended once already by the ATP. I suspect they're taking as dim a view of him as McEnroe is... thin ice...
I imagine he does sign some sort of paperwork with the ATP. Big difference between intentionally losing a game and just not preparing as he should have. Someone should be punished for tanking but should not be punished for not training hard enough.
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@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Donsteppa said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Donsteppa said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Nepia said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Siam If he was really brave in secure in himself he would quit the job he doesn't like - as it is he's just a shitty contractor with a poor work effort to go go with being a twat.
Why should he quit though? He earns a lot of money by doing hardly any work. I doubt he would enjoy another job anymore. Kyrgios has to maintain certain performance standards in order to have a career and he does maintain those standards. If he can maintain those standards while putting in no effort, I can't blame him for continuing to do that. Tennis fans can hate him if they want but I don't think Kyrgios cares about that.
I don't care if he stays or goes, but don't cry about how you hate the game all the time if you stay.
Clearly he doesn't maintain his standards which is why he's been suspended in the past.
He gets asked the question in a press conference though. He was asked why he lost and he said he didn't prepare well enough. He was asked why he didn't prepare well enough and he said he preferred to play basketball. Kyrgios seems to me like he doesn't want to do any media at all but if he doesn't show up he will get lambasted in the press (and will be fined more). I don't know what Kyrgios was meant to say? Should he have lied about how much preparation he did? If Kyrgios is asked whether or not he enjoys tennis, I would rather he answers that question honestly.
Kyrgios has been suspended in the past but he is still the number 13 in the world and he is compensated accordingly. The most important part of his job is to win and he is terrific at that.
Imagine anyone else being interviewed in the press on their day job after a loss/something going wrong and saying they'd prefer to play basketball rather than doing whatever it is that the person ultimately paying the bills for them pays them to do. It could very well be an honest answer, but I know for one I'd be out of job in a big hurry...
But that's my point. Kyrgios only gets paid for winning. He isn't a salaried professional as you presumably are. Kyrgios lost in the second round because he didn't prepare well enough and because he didn't prepare well enough he only got paid $80,000. If Kyrgios put in the effort and won the tournament, he could have got 3.7 million. That seems like an adequate punishment for ill-preparedness.
You get paid a certain amount because your boss expects you to perform at that level. Take a salaried professional like Julian Savea. He gets paid what he gets paid because he is expected to be fit and score tries. If he doesn't meet those expectations, he earns almost the exact same amount of money. If he acted like Kyrgios, it would be unacceptable because he has signed a contract and is expected to meet standards.
Kyrgios isn't representing anyone. He doesn't receive a salary to play tennis well. The Aussie Open pays out the same amount of money regardless of who wins.
And for all that he's not on salary or contract he's still managed to get himself suspended once already by the ATP. I suspect they're taking as dim a view of him as McEnroe is... thin ice...
I imagine he does sign some sort of paperwork with the ATP. Big difference between intentionally losing a game and just not preparing as he should have. Someone should be punished for tanking but should not be punished for not training hard enough.
He can train as long or as short as he likes, but whether salary, contract, appearance or prize money, much of his public attitude fits in the "don't bite the hand that feeds you" category for me.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
Might be a high bar but I always apply the Allblack test to sportsmen, i.e. how I would view them if they were an Allblack. I think it's fair to say that a piston wristed gibbon with an attitude like Kyrgios wouldn't get near selection. Just because he's open about being a cockhead isn't something to admire or "a breath of fresh air" and I can never get my head around those defending him for this.
I heard an interview with former French tennis star Henry Leconte and he said that Kyrgios will regret this later in life because time goes so fast and your career will be over before you know it.
He's literally holding a lotto ticket and he claims it bores him. Maybe the dickhead should spend some time in an office or a factory at the pay level most 21 year olds get. Then he might discover that his awful boring existence isn't so bad after all. Twat.
But he isn't an All Black. He is an individual representing himself. He doesn't have teammates or a history to live up to. He just has his name and he can do with that as he wishes. He is a contractor and not an employee. I presume only the grandslams are forced to invite him?
Has Kyrgios actually said that he has an awful, boring existence? I just think he has said he doesn't particularly like doing tennis training. I never hear any "woe is me" from Kyrgios. I don't follow everything he says admittedly.
No shit Hydro. I used that as a (high) benchmark for how I would like sportsmen to conduct themselves. I never said K couldn't do what he wants or the lotto ticket wasn't his to piss away. That doesn't make him less of a twat or, inexplicably, someone to be admired.
I just don't see why being lazy makes someone a twat. I generally judge people (and I do judge people) based on how they treat others. Kyrgios hasn't always covered himself in glory in that regard, true. He hasn't been so horrible to others that it is worth getting worked up over either.
I have no qualifications here but it seems relatively obvious to me that Kyrgios suffers from some sort of mental illness - most likely depression. People say he was given a lottery ticket but I would find it difficult to describe someone suffering from depression (or a related disorder) as lucky. I don't think people should try to admire him; I think they should try to understand him. If they don't want to understand him that is fine too but then they shouldn't call him a twat.
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@hydro11 That theory has been thrown out on this thread before. I'm not buying it.
I've met plenty of piston wristed gibbons before who clearly didn't suffer from depression or mental illness. Some of them famous, some of them think they are famous, and some of them just flat out nobodies.
Some people are just piston wristed gibbons, and Kyrgios seems happy to be labelled in this bucket
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@MajorRage said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@hydro11 That theory has been thrown out on this thread before. I'm not buying it.
I've met plenty of piston wristed gibbons before who clearly didn't suffer from depression or mental illness. Some of them famous, some of them think they are famous, and some of them just flat out nobodies.
Some people are just piston wristed gibbons, and Kyrgios seems happy to be labelled in this bucket
That's not really what I'm saying. Most people on here aren't criticising Kyrgios for saying mean things to Wawrinka. After all, people all over the internet say worse things about Kyrgios than Kyrgios ever said about Wawrinka. Case in point, his mum had to shut down her twitter account because she got so much abuse. Even on here, it's acceptable to call sportsmen we don't like fluffybunnies. We should not hold sportsmen to higher standards than we hold ourselves. Regardless, that isn't the main form of criticism Kyrgios is facing here.
The criticism on here seems to be in regards to Kyrgios not trying hard enough. From what I have read, Kyrgios did give 100% against Seppi but was under prepared and slightly injured. He didn't tank in that match. Kyrgios has tanked in the past and was justifiably suspended for it.
I would say that I don't think it can really be clear whether or not another person suffers from a mental illness. Regardless, mental illness is not an excuse for disregarding other people's feelings and any possible mental illness does not excuse the Wawrinka comments or some of his on-court demeanor such as swearing at officials. Nor is depression an excuse for deliberately losing. However, depression is an excuse for not being able to enjoy things you love, for being able to work hard or even for struggling to get up in the morning. Again, we don't know what Kyrgios has or doesn't have but he seems to have all the symptoms.
Kyrgios may or may not be a piston wristed gibbon but if he is a piston wristed gibbon it isn't because he doesn't train hard or because he doesn't like tennis. I suppose you would have to be in tennis circles to know for sure. I think you are correct that Kyrgios doesn't mind being called a piston wristed gibbon.
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@hydro11 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
Might be a high bar but I always apply the Allblack test to sportsmen, i.e. how I would view them if they were an Allblack. I think it's fair to say that a piston wristed gibbon with an attitude like Kyrgios wouldn't get near selection. Just because he's open about being a cockhead isn't something to admire or "a breath of fresh air" and I can never get my head around those defending him for this.
I heard an interview with former French tennis star Henry Leconte and he said that Kyrgios will regret this later in life because time goes so fast and your career will be over before you know it.
He's literally holding a lotto ticket and he claims it bores him. Maybe the dickhead should spend some time in an office or a factory at the pay level most 21 year olds get. Then he might discover that his awful boring existence isn't so bad after all. Twat.
But he isn't an All Black. He is an individual representing himself. He doesn't have teammates or a history to live up to. He just has his name and he can do with that as he wishes. He is a contractor and not an employee. I presume only the grandslams are forced to invite him?
Has Kyrgios actually said that he has an awful, boring existence? I just think he has said he doesn't particularly like doing tennis training. I never hear any "woe is me" from Kyrgios. I don't follow everything he says admittedly.
It's pretty arrogant as a NZ rugby fan to assume that 'piston wristed gibbons' haven't graced our national team on numerous occasions. I know it's all the rage for Hansen and co to promote the team culture etcetc but I can bet any number of disruptive fuckheads have played for the All Blacks.
Also take a guy like James Ryan who retired at a very young age. Who knows what went on behind the scenes there? Is it our right as fans to have a go at him for 'throwing it all away?' Or to have a go at 'lazy' players like Sione Lauaki, Neemia Tialata etc?
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@MN5 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
Also take a guy like James Ryan who retired at a very young age. Who knows what went on behind the scenes there?
Three knee surgeries?
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@antipodean said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
@MN5 said in Biggest Tool in World Sport:
Also take a guy like James Ryan who retired at a very young age. Who knows what went on behind the scenes there?
Three knee surgeries?
Oh. Ha. Not what I heard, I thought he gave it all away for a law career.
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@MN5 difference is, if they were piston wristed gibbons, it certainly wasn't public knowledge they were.
Just a few random guys on the internet speculating about what they heard from a mate....even then, those are far and few between, and usually of guys that didnt spend a huge amount of time in the Black jersey either, so read into that as well
