Wallaby EOYT 2016
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@mariner4life said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
There isn't all that much Cheika can do about that, that's not really his remit as national coach.
Fuck you wouldn't know that listening to some of the Queenslanders. They just think everything is NSW's fault since Link got booted.
As for the indecision: I wonder if part of that isn't down to a lack of a second organiser, and Hodge's inexperience.
Everyone on that tour is still better for it. If we get a bit of alignment in the professional ranks, and some more talent identified through the NRC, the provinces can improve.
The problem is overseas drain. We've got a few dozen blokes who could still play Super Rugby, but can't afford them.
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@NTA there are some gaping holes in that side, and none are quick fixes, and there are too many for the Aussies to ever be a dominant side again. So expectations need to be tempered i think. The 97-2002 days are more than likely never coming back.
The myth of the Australian Way probably needs to be put to bed as well. What Cheika needs to work on is getting the best out of the resources available. I'm not smart enough to work out what that is, given the lack of dominant tight players, or genuine game breakers in the backs, or tactical halves. But he's got to come up with a plan that wins games against good teams, not just competes with average ones.
I honestly don't know what to make of them, at times they look right in the mix, then in the same game they can look massively substandard. The last 2 weeks they've lost, and in each game they've looked great and shit. Against Scotland they won, but again looked awful for a heap of the game, but finished all over them. France was close as well. It's hard to tell whether you guys should be optimistic or not really.
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@akan004 said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@ACT-Crusader said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@akan004 said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@mariner4life Yeah, sure is. I counted five players with Kiwi connections in this English squad. Hughes, Teo, Marko Vunipola, Hartley and Harrison. Billy Vunipola is born in Brisbane. Quality poaching from the hypocrites of world rugby.
Are you trying to be funny?
You clearly weren't around in the 90s when every English hack was throwing accusations at NZ for poaching PI players etc when most of them knew the makeup of NZ society. Just think it's a bit ironic nowadays as you don't hear a sound from them.
I was around in the 90s. Had a pretty mean flat top that put 2-3 inches on my height.
The England rugby selectors pick foreign born players. Big deal, who cares, nothing to see there. Why are they hypocrites?
Sure some of the media and commentators based in England liked to point out what the All Blacks were doing and criticised it. Who cares, nothing new there. But what is the link between their articles and England selection? Zilch, nada, donut.
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@ACT-Crusader i had a sick undercut. Then this parted, off-to-the-side thing (cause i wanted to be a pretty boy. and failed). And i can honestly say i have no idea what overseas media said. I was too busy sinking piss and trying to tune chicks. One far more successfully than the other.
On the other hand, poaching poachy poachers. Sick-en-ing.
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M4L - Interesting about your point on the 'Australian Way'.
I think one thing that hasn't been acknowledged is how good this Aussie team is to watch. The darkest days of the Deans regime were characterised by a complete inability to score tries, and a complete absence of attacking nous. Games would descend into dull kicking battles and best case we'd win 13-12. I think it was 2012 in which we averaged less than one try a test.
Like he did at the Tahs, Cheika has this team playing an expansive, ball-in-hand game that produces tries 2-5 times a game.
There's only been one genuinely dull Wallabies match this year - against the Boks in SA (maybe two if you include the Bled flogging). Normally we'd have five or six every year, vile games where you'd tell your mates not to watch if they haven't seen it.
It doesn't make the win/loss thing any more palatable, but it's one thing I think needs to be acknowledged. The Wallabies are genuinely a good team to watch.
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@barbarian dangerous territory there mate. The ABs were still pretty good to watch, scoring decent points, even during the darker parts of years 98-02...
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@barbarian the best teams do more than chuck it around. It won't win you many games. Look at the weekend, i am sure the passing and ruck stats were way up, but they were trying to score from their own 20m line, and going no where.
There is this thing in the community of Aus rugby that the great Wallaby teams played with freedom, and ran the ball from everywhere, and that's what's needed to make Aus rugby great again. It's half true, but field position is just as important as possession.
The kicking game needs massive improvement, the tactical side needs a big look at, and how you move the ball needs to be improved as well.
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I don't disagree with any of that.
What I am saying is I think the public opposition would be much louder if our style wasn't so attractive. If we were playing dry, conservative rugby and still losing.
Not saying that losing is acceptable, or we should be running it from everywhere. But I remember the Knuckles Connolly era at the Wallabies, I remember the Chris Hickey/Michael Foley years at the Waratahs. Style matters to the Australian rugby public. The fact that they are playing something close to the ideal 'Australian way' has prevented plenty of issues with the wider Aussie public IMO.
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@barbarian fair comment. And in all reality, probably helpful? Easing the pressure through means other than wins allows the ARU to see if Cheika can find the answers, and not have to sack him because of some deplorable results.
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@mariner4life I'd say it's very helpful. The Ireland loss was a prime example. A great game of rugby, few tries for the nightly news highlight reel, and as a rugby fan a general feeling you hadn't wasted 80 minutes of your life.
In a rugby sense the loss was no better than losing 9-6. Errors were made, opportunities squandered. But we all feel a little bit better about things if it's 27-24.
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@mariner4life said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@NTA there are some gaping holes in that side, and none are quick fixes, and there are too many for the Aussies to ever be a dominant side again. So expectations need to be tempered i think. The 97-2002 days are more than likely never coming back.
The myth of the Australian Way probably needs to be put to bed as well. What Cheika needs to work on is getting the best out of the resources available. I'm not smart enough to work out what that is, given the lack of dominant tight players, or genuine game breakers in the backs, or tactical halves. But he's got to come up with a plan that wins games against good teams, not just competes with average ones.
I honestly don't know what to make of them, at times they look right in the mix, then in the same game they can look massively substandard. The last 2 weeks they've lost, and in each game they've looked great and shit. Against Scotland they won, but again looked awful for a heap of the game, but finished all over them. France was close as well. It's hard to tell whether you guys should be optimistic or not really.
I think it's toughest for Aus guys around my age (37). Those guys would have first become aware of the Wallabies around 1984 (Grand Slam) or 1986 (awesome series win in NZ). They then had the RWC in 1991 and were unquestionably the premier team in rugby for a further 4 years. Then you had the 99 RWC, Lions, 6 years of Bledisloes etc. In other words you had a down period of only a couple of years followed by an amazing purple patch when they were the best in the world. But that cycle hasn't repeated itself for an age now and may never again. That has to be a bitter pill to swallow.
Returning to Brisbane after 12 years away I've been absolutely shocked by how rugby has declined in this country. When I left league was still wounded from Super League, the Wallabies were flying high and some of the best league players were even defecting to union. I lividly remember Arthur Beetson talking about traditional league areas going to union. Yet some how league is probably bigger than ever and union is getting arse raped by farking Wendyball. What the hell happened?
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The bandwagoneers who jumped in their early 20s around 98-99 were probably the bigger issue. Hadn't been paying attention until we were successful, and that meant they were the first to leave when things went sour.
People tell us to fuck off when we talk about the challenges of league and AFL, but really you can't understand that until you've seen it in action.
Part of the problem is the grassroots game. I'm now President of a 10-year-old club in Western Sydney for Suburban Rugby - park footy. Strictly amateur, Saturday afternoon fun for 3 grades in our Division, and more grades + Colts in the higher divisions. I've been there since it was two grades, and there are some amazing highs and lows I could tell you about over a beer some time.
Beyond the fact that over half my players are blue collar, and work shifts (therefore can't make training) or weekends (therefore can't make some away games across town), we just don't have the clout to get a decent ground from Council. We take what we're given, and that means sharing with other sports, no facilities on our oval, a concrete cricket pitch on one side, and a shipping container to store our gear.
I met with council this morning who have generously put a demountable unit at one end of the field with power hooked up. Its more than we've ever had as a club!
Union is hardly getting "raped" by Wendyball at a professional level - crowd numbers are decent in the A-League, but their TV numbers aren't that hot. They put on a good show and have an international game to leverage, so like a frillneck lizard, look bigger than they are.
Their amateur game though is very competitive when we're talking local Council facilities. They're fielding dozens of junior and senior teams, and they're charging them upwards of $350 for player fees. They turn a profit, outfit the canteens, and Council let them "own" the facility in return for improving it.
In rugby a lot of blokes know clubs are desperate so skip out on paying.
Because league pays players, even at shitty 4th tier, recruiting players is hard. Last year we registered 131 players for three grades, and only 20% of them put in any kind of money. Only about a dozen paid in full, and its only $220! Most rugby clubs start at $250 and go up from there.
To put each grade on the field - just in entry fees and insurance - will be about $2500. But on top of that is the ARU "Participation Fee" which is $775 per grade this year, and $1000 next year. The club is looking at over $10K just to put our desired teams on the park, excluding any equipment costs, player kit, or sundries like annual club affiliation fees.
Basically if we register 60 players (20 per grade), it'll cost us about $270 to put a player on the field. So we're taking a bath there and relying on sponsors and raffles to make up the difference.
This year we're drawing a line in he sand - if players don't want to pay, then fine. Fuck off.
Its the only way to turn it around.
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It's probably worse in QLD, as the QRU are flat broke, and are therefore applying an additional levy to every single player in the state. Which really fucks country rugby (affiliation fees are no longer by team, they are by player, and you have to be registered to take the field).
The rugby situation in Cairns is so bad, we have a 2 month junior season played after every other code is finished (Oct and Nov) just to get players. My eldest was playing U8s, and we had 26 kids in our squad (so we registered 2 teams). Most other clubs had between 5 & 8 kids. Because of the cost of registrations and insurance, despite charging $120 per kid for a 9 game season, the club couldn't afford to provide shorts and socks, or water bottles. So parents were forking out just so their kids could play, and then having to go buy gear as well. For 9 games.
Now, this is league heartland up here, so rugby is always up against it. But jesus, the junior AFL comp is flying, soccer obviously kills it, but rugby is a non-event. And the QRU do nothing. They can't afford it, and they aren't interested. I believe Townsville has a full-season junior comp, but i don't think any of the other QLD regional cities do.
Why do the ARU have no money to support the grass roots? Is it purely down to having to pay to keep players in the country? (something the other footy codes don't have to worry about?) It's not like the NRL or AFL guys are paid less, and there are a damn sight more of them as well.
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@mariner4life said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
Why do the ARU have no money to support the grass roots? Is it purely down to having to pay to keep players in the country? (something the other footy codes don't have to worry about?) It's not like the NRL or AFL guys are paid less, and there are a damn sight more of them as well.
All the Super Rugby franchises are running on empty, some at a loss. The ARU is propping up too much of the game to keep fat salaries going for both players and executive.
The sponsorship dollars are also less than the heyday, and the $45M "war chest" from RWC2003 got pissed up against a wall, paying out JON and coaches and trying the original Australian Rugby Championship back in 2007, that none of the clubs wanted.
In short: politics.
Every fluffybunny in the rugby hierarchy think they have the answers, and no-one else does. None of them give a lonely fuck about the game outside:
- Their province
- Their Premier club
- The school they attended
- And maybe the competition that school was entered in
We've had so many low moments in the last decade, but its still not enough to get the Poidos of club land to look past their own interests or glory days to see we're not here to fuck spiders.
Hopefully the new TV rights deal settles a few nerves, and maybe the odd out-of-window test provides a boost.
But while we're throwing $4M over three years at Pocock to take sabbaticals, or a couple of mill a season at Folau to give dud short balls to his right, I don't see the overall situation improving.
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@NTA said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
The bandwagoneers who jumped in their early 20s around 98-99 were probably the bigger issue. Hadn't been paying attention until we were successful, and that meant they were the first to leave when things went sour.
People tell us to fuck off when we talk about the challenges of league and AFL, but really you can't understand that until you've seen it in action.
Part of the problem is the grassroots game. I'm now President of a 10-year-old club in Western Sydney for Suburban Rugby - park footy. Strictly amateur, Saturday afternoon fun for 3 grades in our Division, and more grades + Colts in the higher divisions. I've been there since it was two grades, and there are some amazing highs and lows I could tell you about over a beer some time.
Beyond the fact that over half my players are blue collar, and work shifts (therefore can't make training) or weekends (therefore can't make some away games across town), we just don't have the clout to get a decent ground from Council. We take what we're given, and that means sharing with other sports, no facilities on our oval, a concrete cricket pitch on one side, and a shipping container to store our gear.
I met with council this morning who have generously put a demountable unit at one end of the field with power hooked up. Its more than we've ever had as a club!
Union is hardly getting "raped" by Wendyball at a professional level - crowd numbers are decent in the A-League, but their TV numbers aren't that hot. They put on a good show and have an international game to leverage, so like a frillneck lizard, look bigger than they are.
Their amateur game though is very competitive when we're talking local Council facilities. They're fielding dozens of junior and senior teams, and they're charging them upwards of $350 for player fees. They turn a profit, outfit the canteens, and Council let them "own" the facility in return for improving it.
In rugby a lot of blokes know clubs are desperate so skip out on paying.
Because league pays players, even at shitty 4th tier, recruiting players is hard. Last year we registered 131 players for three grades, and only 20% of them put in any kind of money. Only about a dozen paid in full, and its only $220! Most rugby clubs start at $250 and go up from there.
To put each grade on the field - just in entry fees and insurance - will be about $2500. But on top of that is the ARU "Participation Fee" which is $775 per grade this year, and $1000 next year. The club is looking at over $10K just to put our desired teams on the park, excluding any equipment costs, player kit, or sundries like annual club affiliation fees.
Basically if we register 60 players (20 per grade), it'll cost us about $270 to put a player on the field. So we're taking a bath there and relying on sponsors and raffles to make up the difference.
This year we're drawing a line in he sand - if players don't want to pay, then fine. Fuck off.
Its the only way to turn it around.
I remember when I played club rugby in Brisbane the treasurer was always at people to pay their subs. It was pathetic. It really wasn't that much and most of the fuckers who wouldn't pay spent that amount on piss after the game. The worst thing was the coach selecting these guys over others who paid straight away. I never got the attitude that they just expected to play for free and the club would just operate as normal.
I played for one particularly shitty club (which was closest to where I lived) that has a thriving junior club (where my son now plays and I coach). We were using the lights to train as well as all of the club facilities. The junior president came upon one evening to make the very reasonable request that we start contributing a bit more, i.e. pay our subs. When he left 3/4 of the players and coach slagged him off. A couple of us (the ones who had paid) spoke up to suggest that he had a point, to which these idiots obviously had no argument. I left that shitty team at the end of the season and they have, astonishing enough, since folded.
Hope you wipe that shit out Nick. Fucking freeloaders.
On the soccer thing it really is amazing what they can charge. Youngest son played soccer for a local team. He got a crappy team shirt (just a shirt not even a proper playing strip with that cool high-tech material) and that was it. You were also required to help out with working bees, ref etc etc. Eldest son played rugby and that covered insurance, subsidised mouth guard and a really farking awesome jersey which they get to keep. I think I paid 50-60 bucks more for the soccer which was an absolute bloody ripoff considering what you get back. But they have umpteen teams and are raking in the cash.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
Hope you wipe that shit out Nick. Fucking freeloaders.
It is goal Numero Uno for the Secretary and I. Previous administrations have been simultaneously playing, so they felt awkward demanding fees from the guys they were bleeding alongside. I get that.
But the club, despite clearing $22k in raffles this year, is still right down on funds because of all the outgoings.
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@NTA said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
@mariner4life said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
Why do the ARU have no money to support the grass roots? Is it purely down to having to pay to keep players in the country? (something the other footy codes don't have to worry about?) It's not like the NRL or AFL guys are paid less, and there are a damn sight more of them as well.
All the Super Rugby franchises are running on empty, some at a loss. The ARU is propping up too much of the game to keep fat salaries going for both players and executive.
The sponsorship dollars are also less than the heyday, and the $45M "war chest" from RWC2003 got pissed up against a wall, paying out JON and coaches and trying the original Australian Rugby Championship back in 2007, that none of the clubs wanted.
In short: politics.
Every fluffybunny in the rugby hierarchy think they have the answers, and no-one else does. None of them give a lonely fuck about the game outside:
- Their province
- Their Premier club
- The school they attended
- And maybe the competition that school was entered in
We've had so many low moments in the last decade, but its still not enough to get the Poidos of club land to look past their own interests or glory days to see we're not here to fuck spiders.
Hopefully the new TV rights deal settles a few nerves, and maybe the odd out-of-window test provides a boost.
But while we're throwing $4M over three years at Pocock to take sabbaticals, or a couple of mill a season at Folau to give dud short balls to his right, I don't see the overall situation improving.
For real? Fark that is a waste of cash. Considering that is one position in which you have some really good depth, paying that amount is ridiculous.
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@barbarian crazy? maybe. Didn't see them versus Ireland. I watched the Aus-England game late so maybe I confused him with Hodge. But the 9-10 axis was so dysfunctional the whole backline looks fragile.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Wallaby EOYT 2016:
On the soccer thing it really is amazing what they can charge. Youngest son played soccer for a local team. He got a crappy team shirt (just a shirt not even a proper playing strip with that cool high-tech material) and that was it. You were also required to help out with working bees, ref etc etc. Eldest son played rugby and that covered insurance, subsidised mouth guard and a really farking awesome jersey which they get to keep. I think I paid 50-60 bucks more for the soccer which was an absolute bloody ripoff considering what you get back. But they have umpteen teams and are raking in the cash.
Don't forget you have to keep the FIFA hierarchy in champagne and hookers with that sub.
