Black Caps v Pakistan
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good to see astle there, all the other blokes got a go and failed (as astle did previously), so why not give him another chance. turns it a fair whack, and can bat. haven't seen much of his work since being dropped but he has been taking wickets - hopefully he has tightened up, as the wicket balls were always there, just too inconsistent.
raval for guppy, yeah fair enough though i doubt it makes much difference.
de grandhomme though? did not see that coming.rough leaving ronchi out too i reckon, though i won't get much support for that opinion here.
New Zealand squad Kane Williamson (capt), Todd Astle, Trent Boult, Colin de Grandhomme, Matt Henry, Tom Latham, Henry Nicholls, Jimmy Neesham, Jeet Raval, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner, BJ Watling
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@reprobate said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
de grandhomme though? did not see that coming.
Nor me. If we were playing T20 I could see a case for it, but test cricket?
I guess he's just racked up his highest first class score 144*, but doesn't that just make him a poor man's Neesham or Anderson?
Don't follow it at all?
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@reprobate Astle only got one test so didn't really get much of a go previously. Like you am happy to see him get another crack in Santners absence.
Probably tough on Ronchi given he was one of our better players in India but he's not going to be around much longer and we need to bring some younger guys into the squad for our home games.
Guppy's axing is completely expected but I'm still a bit sad about it, the bloke has the talent but just doesn't seem to be able to perform at test level.
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@No-Quarter yeah, i know ronchi is old, but they've picked a 30 year old all-rounder to debut - so i don't think that's the logic.
not a contentious decision at all though really, only one keeper for a home series. feel for him after being one of our better performers, and as you say, guppy. can't help but feel he just needs that one breakout performance, but he's had his chances. i'd have more confidence in guppy in the middle order than de grandhomme, but hopefully he'll prove me wrong. -
@Chris-B. bit left-field eh. i don't really remember his bowling to be honest, just the big hitting. first class stats are comparable to neesh so hopefully he goes well.
astle's the big hope though, we really need one of those spinners to make that spot their own.
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Don't rate Todd Astle's bowling tbh as he is far too slow through the air to be effective at test level. Still, he's played well in domestic cricket for a few seasons now so good on him for fighting hard to get another go.
Didn't see the De Grandhomme seection coming despite being a big fan of his. The guy is a beautiful natural timer of the ball and certainly wouldn't look out of place if given a go. His bowling is very similar to Grant Elliott/Jacob Oram where he bowls in the early to mid 120s and relies heavily on changes of pace. Still very happy to see him given a spot in the squad.
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@African-Monkey yeah that's how i see colin too - pretty much has to make it as a batsman because that sort of bowling is only infrequently useful in tests.
i was kinda hoping astle was bowling quicker these days too - too easy to use your feet against loopy stuff and less room for error. still, he's taken a lot more wickets than santner at a much better average and strike rate. -
It will be an adjustment for us fans I guess not seeing Guppy out there in the middle and us holding our breath to see if he can get past 30.
Some of the inclusions are unexpected. I know there is a bit of love for Astle and I don't mind him, but there are big question marks about whether he's test level. Does he have the temperament?
It's obvious we are really searching for answers.
I always go into any test match with a bit of optimism no matter where we are at or our last performance and whilst I'd love a test victory, I'm really just wanting to see Boult and Taylor return to the sort of form that has them talked about in the top 5 in the world.
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I'd imagine it will be de Granhomme and one of Henry (or Wagner) or Astle who will sit out the first test, depending on whether they decide to go with four specialist seamers or three and a spinner.
I'm assuming they've picked de Grandhomme as a back-up allrounder to Neesham given his susceptibility to injury. They need someone who can potentially bat at six and bowl some useful holding overs - presumably he's the best of the contenders who offer that option. Though it seems a bit of a stretch to me that he does.
I think I would have been inclined just to pick the sixth best batsman and if Neesham can't play you go in a little light on bowling. Then again - who knows who the next best batsman is - those who've been talked a bit about - Young, Popli, Mitchell - none of them have done anything with the bat yet this season.
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@TeWaio After a series of losses and fairly poor performances from Guppy, I think Hesson has to be seen to do the right thing.
The worrying thing is that Guppy goes back into Plunket Shield and instantly heads the averages. It's not like we've got a battery of batsmen lining up to replace him (or Nicholls).
I suspect we haven't seen the last of Guppy in test cricket - but, for now, he will probably benefit from going away and bullying a few bowlers at the lower level and regaining a bit of confidence.
Who knows - maybe Raval or others will be revelations - but, I somehow doubt it. It's more usual that people with sensational first class records are found out at test level, than people with mediocre first class records excel in tests.
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Raval has flourished by scoring heavily on the very flat decks/small boundaries that are the Eden Park no.2 and Colin Maiden Park, hence the inflated average.
Guptill just doesn't have it technically to succeed at test level. Unlike Williamson who can defend with soft hands and let the ball come to him, Guptill goes very hard at the ball similar to Jamie How from years gone by. They both look/looked good on the eye when really it is quite the opposite when defending.
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yeah. i don't think we have anyone better than guptill. i disagree that going back to a lower level and bullying some lesser bowlers is going to help. he needs to learn to change a few things against good players, not get away with issues against less good players.
i think moving him to 5/6 would be a good idea. he's still facing good bowlers, but less immediate new ball. hopefully that would let him get in a bit, get some confidence at that level, then face a 2nd new ball with his eye in and resolve those issues. he already knows he can smash domestic runs. -
I think Guppy's a bit prone to losing confidence - he seems to do OK for a while and then a run of bad scores just sends him into a spiral. Not sure there's a lot he can do at this stage to re-build his technique. I heard Flem say in commentary that he probably just has to accept that he's got weaknesses and limitations and learn to cover them as best he can. Probably right.
AM - I just don't think there's too much point comparing Guppy to Williamson - Kane's going to end up with the best test record for NZ ever.
Guppy's not. Even if we persist on with him till he's in his mid-30s he'll be lucky to end up averaging his age.
The only real question is whether he is better than the alternatives - i.e. is he better than Raval?
To be honest, I think he probably is. But, the time is right to give Raval his chance and let's hope he proves me woefully wrong.
Only problem is, we may end up spending a couple of series proving we're worse off.
