All Blacks 2025
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner Those two are penned in if fit. Then I'd have Finau at 6 and either Jacobson or Lakai on the bench. Papalii would be my other back row option if there's room in the squad.
Yep, that seems about right. Kirifi is probably going to be arguably the unluckiest player in the country, but his lack of versatility probably counts against him.
I'm still not sold on Finau at 6 but there doesn't seem to be too many other options. Flanders has been out all year for the Canes but is due back this week, Howden seems to be going well for the Landers, Grace is too small to be a test 6 IMO, and Blackadder is always broken.
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At times it's been a hard watch over the last 5 years.
No reason now not to make hay. Exciting options across the team. Reward form ffs. -
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Cory Jane and Israel Dagg being left out of the 2015 RWC World Cup squad for Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo with a broken leg are the last examples of a ruthless BIG CHOP from the All Blacks I can remember.
That Milner-Skudder come up in 2015 should be studied. From bursting into the Canes starting side out of nowhere to being one of our stars at the WC. Crazy how he had one crazy year and then his career fell off a cliff due to injuries. Real shame.
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@taniwharugby said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
@African-Monkey hopefully he gets a chance at 7nfor the ABs...he has been in some form.this year
Yeah, like I've been against him playing at 7 over the years and felt that his best asset, the jackle, was best used on defence with him not committing as first tackler and letting Cane make most of the tackles up front, but with no 7s in the country being able to replicate Cane and what he offered, we're almost left with no choice but to play Ardie at 7.
It would also allow Sititi to go to 8 and whoever at 6 (again, whoever plays for whatever team they support will be in favour).
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@African-Monkey I guess the thing is, there was probably a period where he would have been our best 7 and 8, but with lesser options at 8, was forced to stay there rather than 7 where I think he does seem more suited, in a traditional role.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
So is it Savea 7, Sititi 8 now.
I hope they got the courage to free up this year and just go for it
Exciting times so many good young players coming throughSteady on. That’s too dynamic.
One or possibly both of them will have to go so they can fit Jacobsen, Papalii and Blackadder there too.
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@Canes4life said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
Ardie is insane. Fuck you all that ever thought he wasn’t AB level. He’s on another planet.
Who thought anyone holds a grudge for nine years about an opinion about a player not being as good as another player in that moment nine years ago.
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A few random musings...
If Braydon Ennor hasn't signed to play overseas then I could see him quickly coming back into the All Blacks frame. Rieko Ioane's greatest strength is his speed and while Ennor can't match that pace, he's the quickest centre in the country by some margin (or at least he was pre-injury). He's looked good in his few games for the Crusaders so far and Lienert-Brown isn't available for July, Ennor might be the next best option behind Proctor (and can cover wing too).
Rivez Reihana has looked pretty handy at 10 for the Crusaders. He's nowhere near All Blacks level yet but he'll be starting for the Maori All Blacks in their two matches against Japan in July which should give him a good opportunity to continue to push his case for a possible call-up in the future. I don't think Harrison Goddard is a 10 option, I think his future is at fullback (and with Love playing at 10 now, hopefully that means Goddard will stick to 15 upon his return), so it's good that Jacomb has some competition. Reihana just seems more assured at the basics.
I've said it before but I'll repeat it now because my original thoughts have only been reinforced in recent weeks. Xavi Taele could be a very good long-term prospect for NZ, though I'm not yet sure which position suits him best. I wouldn't be shocked to see him selected in July as the 'third' 10 option, even if he's never actually asked to play in that role.
Finlay Christie is well down the halfback pecking order right now but I think it's still wide open who gets the third berth behind Ratima and Roigard. I'm not concerned at all by either players' form at the moment, they've both had good moments throughout the season and were both strong in their most recent outings. I actually think Fakatava is the best option to back them up right now, ahead of both Funaki and Hotham, but I suspect Hotham will make the first squad (though I'd rather Hotham continued to partner Reihana for the MABs).
On the guys that are off form etc, I'm not too concerned when players have one dud season. Caleb Clarke was very good for the All Blacks last year and while he's not necessarily been in superb form for the Blues (although some of that is down to injuries), I'd be happy to see him starting on the left wing for NZ come July. Similarly, there were players who were underwhelming for the All Blacks last season who are very clearly back in form, such as Ardie Savea.
I think players who have two bad 'seasons' in a row should come find their position in the All Blacks under question, however, as well as those who continually fail to step up to Test level. Rieko Ioane is certainly someone who falls in the first category, especially with Billy Proctor currently playing like a young ALB.
The backline largely picks itself at the moment: Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Proctor, ??, Jordan. In saying that, I wouldn't mind seeing either Love at fullback with Jordan on the wing, or Jordie Barrett at fullback with Jordan on the wing and Quinn Tupaea at 12. Emoni Narawa is an option at 14 (and should be selected ahead of Reece and the departing Tele'a), but I'm sure Reece will hold his spot somehow.
There's plenty of depth in the front row and enough up-and-coming talent in the second row such that the only big concerns should be the make-up of the loose forwards. I wouldn't mind a Jacobson/Savea/Sititi combo with Finau on the bench.
At this stage, I think a 'top' 23 (one that combines experience, form and future potential) would look like:
Williams, Taukei'aho, Lomax, Barrett, Vaa'i, Jacobson, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Reserves: Taylor, Norris, Newell, Holland, Finau, Ratima, Tupaea, Narawa.
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For mine, Savea is at 7, and Sititi is with him. I think to free Sititi up to roam, we probably want a really tight guy, which could be Lio-Willie, or they could take a risk on a bruiser in Parker. I am not convinced Finau compliments those two, as his best attribute is running with it in the wide channels.
With all the talent at lock, I do also expect them to consider Barrett or Vaa'i on the blindside.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
A few random musings...
If Braydon Ennor hasn't signed to play overseas then I could see him quickly coming back into the All Blacks frame. Rieko Ioane's greatest strength is his speed and while Ennor can't match that pace, he's the quickest centre in the country by some margin (or at least he was pre-injury). He's looked good in his few games for the Crusaders so far and Lienert-Brown isn't available for July, Ennor might be the next best option behind Proctor (and can cover wing too).
Rivez Reihana has looked pretty handy at 10 for the Crusaders. He's nowhere near All Blacks level yet but he'll be starting for the Maori All Blacks in their two matches against Japan in July which should give him a good opportunity to continue to push his case for a possible call-up in the future. I don't think Harrison Goddard is a 10 option, I think his future is at fullback (and with Love playing at 10 now, hopefully that means Goddard will stick to 15 upon his return), so it's good that Jacomb has some competition. Reihana just seems more assured at the basics.
I've said it before but I'll repeat it now because my original thoughts have only been reinforced in recent weeks. Xavi Taele could be a very good long-term prospect for NZ, though I'm not yet sure which position suits him best. I wouldn't be shocked to see him selected in July as the 'third' 10 option, even if he's never actually asked to play in that role.
Finlay Christie is well down the halfback pecking order right now but I think it's still wide open who gets the third berth behind Ratima and Roigard. I'm not concerned at all by either players' form at the moment, they've both had good moments throughout the season and were both strong in their most recent outings. I actually think Fakatava is the best option to back them up right now, ahead of both Funaki and Hotham, but I suspect Hotham will make the first squad (though I'd rather Hotham continued to partner Reihana for the MABs).
On the guys that are off form etc, I'm not too concerned when players have one dud season. Caleb Clarke was very good for the All Blacks last year and while he's not necessarily been in superb form for the Blues (although some of that is down to injuries), I'd be happy to see him starting on the left wing for NZ come July. Similarly, there were players who were underwhelming for the All Blacks last season who are very clearly back in form, such as Ardie Savea.
I think players who have two bad 'seasons' in a row should come find their position in the All Blacks under question, however, as well as those who continually fail to step up to Test level. Rieko Ioane is certainly someone who falls in the first category, especially with Billy Proctor currently playing like a young ALB.
The backline largely picks itself at the moment: Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Proctor, ??, Jordan. In saying that, I wouldn't mind seeing either Love at fullback with Jordan on the wing, or Jordie Barrett at fullback with Jordan on the wing and Quinn Tupaea at 12. Emoni Narawa is an option at 14 (and should be selected ahead of Reece and the departing Tele'a), but I'm sure Reece will hold his spot somehow.
There's plenty of depth in the front row and enough up-and-coming talent in the second row such that the only big concerns should be the make-up of the loose forwards. I wouldn't mind a Jacobson/Savea/Sititi combo with Finau on the bench.
At this stage, I think a 'top' 23 (one that combines experience, form and future potential) would look like:
Williams, Taukei'aho, Lomax, Barrett, Vaa'i, Jacobson, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Reserves: Taylor, Norris, Newell, Holland, Finau, Ratima, Tupaea, Narawa.
My abiding memory of him is Robbie Henshaw making him look like Merhts/O'Gara in defence. No thanks.
The rest of what you said had merit though !
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Hotham seems a little under rated by some judging by recent comments. He is a very tidy half, with a cheeky sniping game and a relaxed natural pass. He has some things he can improve, but I think he has a game that will suit test rugby. He is a good shot for the bench I reckon.
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Summary for the future squad :
Hookers :
Codie Taylor is a certainty;
Taukei'aho as well;
Aumua : has not fully recovered from a nasty injury. LO throwing still a work on.
Moananu : he could be a bolter as he is the best LO thrower in the country and has a very good workmate. Small but strong.Loosehead props :
Tamaiti Williams : probably the best of the bunch. Strong scrummager, powerful in the loose, good hands. Defence not his strength.
Ethan de Groot : despite a poor SR rugby campaign (with the notable exception of the game against the Hurricanes), he should be in. Good scrummager but does not bring very much in the loose. Not many meters gained in regard to his impressive physique.
Olli Norris : he could be a bolter as his scrummaging is far better this year and he is the best ball carrier of them all. Good at shifting bodies in the rucks too.
George Bower : Solid servant with no weaknesses but without notable strength. He is a Crusader but his age could count against him.
Xavier Numia : he has not recovered from his long injury. Actually, he is a shadow of his former self. Not as dynamic as he used to be but scrums adequately. I don't see him join the squad.Tight head props :
Lomax : best THP in the country. He is a certainty.
Tosi : not his best season that's for sure but he is beginning to regain some form. Won a penalty but conceded one against EdG on Friday. Powerful in the loose. He should be Lomax's understudy.
Fletcher Newell : seems to carry more effectively this year. Still a strong scrummager. He should be the third THP within the squad;
George Dyer : very good workrate and good if not dominant scrummager. He could be a bolter but this would be a big surprise as far as I am concerned.Locks :
Scott Barrett : he is a certainty despite being rather anonymous this season. Will he retain his captaincy ?
Tupou Vai'i : best lock in the country ... by a country mile. Another certainty for the squad;
Patrick Tuipolutu : not a great SR season for him, hampered by a few niggles. His experience should prevail for a place in the squad.
Holland : he has not progressed as quickly as I expected but maybe it is because he is playing in a very collectively weak team. Very effective in disrupting opposition's throws at the LO, solid work in the rucks and mauls. His weakness is his lack of power in his ball carrying IMO; I think he will be selected thanks to Darry's injury.
Josh Lord : he is made of glass, despite having added a few Kgs to his frame. He is a contender but I don't see him get the nod.
Ah Kuoi : he is having a great SR season. Excellent workrate, uncompromising attitude. He may be a bit too light for an international lock.
Sam Darry : he could have been the squad's fourth lock but his injury will probably keep him out. He has all the qualities to become a world class lock IMO.
Walker-Leawere : his indiscipline should keep him out of contention. It's a shame because his power could be useful against the SA or French packs.
Antonio Shalfoon : he is the Crusaders best lock this year. I thought he was a journeyman but he did far better than I expected. He is a Crusader so he is a possibility for the squad.Loose forwards :
Ardie Savea : a certainty. Will he become the team's captain ? He probably deserves it.
Wallace Sititi : another certainty despite his recent recovery from injury. He and Savea are both outstanding ball carriers.
Hoskins Sotutu : in terms of technique, he is probably the best Nr.8 in NZ. His lack of versatility might count against him.
Peter Lakai : he was outstanding against France last year and has played better and better after a slow start in the SR. A good player to have on the bench. He should be in.
Dalton Papali'i : very sound player who lacks the X-factor one could expect from such a gifted man. He could be in but he could also but out of the squad. Who knows ?
Jacobson : solid but not brillant. Anonymous in his outings with the ABs but very good with the Chiefs. He and Papali'i are the same type of players.
Finau : the big mystery. Physically imposing but does not impose himself at the upper level. If he plays to his potential, he could be a world beater. I think he will be in because of the lack of other valuable options.
Cullen Grace : solid, excellent at the lineout but physically a bit light for an international blindside flanker.
Ethan Blackadder : great workrate but does not have the expected impact, maybe because of his automatic injuries. One of Robertson's favorites so he might be in.
Du Plessis Kirifi : excellent at the breakdown but his lack of versatility might count against him. If Tavatavanawai is selected, then Kirifi could not be needed as they both play the same "jackaling" role.
Christian Lio-Willie : strong ball carrier but physically too limited for an international Nr.8 IMO. Plays for the Crusaders, though.Halfbacks :
Cam Roigard : not his best season so far. Good passing, good kicking, but many unusual mistakes in this SR season. However, he is a certainty for the squad.
Cortez Ratima : not his best season as he has been seriously challenged by Roe. He should be in the squad though. I'd like the idea of having two distinct combos : Roigard/Love and Ratima/DMac in the 23.
Finlay Christie : I don't think he will make the squad because he has been rather meh so far.
Noah Hotham : he could be in though he is not the finished article yet. Snipes well but his passing is too slow.
Fakatava : snipes well too but his passing lets him down at times. Tends to make silly errors but he can be brillant.
Funaki : solid but does not play for the good team and is not yet the finished article.
Preston : plays for the Saders. Sharp pass but weak in defence. I don't think he will make it.1st Five :
DMac : probably the best in the country. The Chiefs are a different team when he is not their playmaker.
Beauden Barrett : I guess he will be selected but more on his reputation than on his recent performances. Questionable goal and tactical kicking. However, he is still capable of showing glimpses of his former brillance.
Ruben Love : like the two above, he can play fullback and 1st Five. Brillant player with a thousand qualities. Questions about his game management as a 1st Five.2nd Five :
Jordie Barrett : he is a certainty. 2nd Five is probably his best position.
David Havili : one of Robertson's favorites but has not done a lot at the upper level. Will he get selected while there are other younger options ?
Quinn Tupaea : solid and uncompromising but still has to prove his worth on the international scene. If Havili is in, then he would be out of the squad.
Riley Higgins : good passer and offloader but his defence is still a work on. I have doubts about his chances to get picked.
Tavatavanawai : he is a type of player the ABs never had in their ranks. He could bring something different. He is a constant menace at the breakdown and could be useful in a tight game where the ABs have to defend their line. He could be a bolter for the selection.Centres :
Rieko Ioane : not a good year for him so far. He should be in, though, thanks to his anteriority and lack of experienced alternatives.
Billy Proctor : the best passing centre in NZ. He knows how to put a player into space. Good in defence, too. It would be a very bad surprise if he is not selected.
Tanielu Tele'a : strongest ball carrying centre in NZ. I don't know much about his defensive qualities. His versatility could make him a bolter for the squad.Back three :
Will Jordan : he is a certainty, probably as a fullback but with three potential fullbacks (DMac, BB and Love), he could be pushed to the right wing.
Caleb Clarke : Not a good season for him but he has plenty of qualities (speed, strength and safety under the high balls) which will probably take him into the squad.
Sevu Reece : great workrate but his lack of speed against the likes of Bielle Biarrey and Kolbe could be a major deficiency. I really don't know whether he will be selected or not.
Mark Tele'a : he certainly knows how the slip through tackles but his lack of speed and the fact that he is heading overseas might count against him.
Emoni Narawa : no known weaknesses. Has been very good so far for the Chiefs.
AJ Lam : can play wing, 2nd Five and centre. Quick and powerful, he has already been in the AB squad and could well retain his place.
Leroy Carter : has entered the conversation lately. His defensive frailties and inexperience at the highest level could count against him.
Caleb Tangitau : a shame that he has been injured as he was the form winger before. His sheer speed is something the ABs did not have in their squad last year. He is not yet the finished article but I'd like to see him taken at least as an apprentice.
Shaun Stevenson : he has been very good for the Chiefs this year. Brillant in attack and big boot. Has not shown the defensive lapses he used to show the years before. Unfortunately he is leaving so he won't get picked.
Bailyn Sullivan : he has been great for the Hurricanes. Excellent tackler and opportunist try scorer. Despite these positive accomplishments, it would be a big surprise to see him getting selected. -
Disagree that Hotham's passing is too slow. I think it's deceptive because it lppks effortless.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
Disagree that Hotham's passing is too slow. I think it's deceptive because it lppks effortless.
I think he has the worst passing of the young halfback options, to be honest. Good ball runner but slow passer.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
Disagree that Hotham's passing is too slow. I think it's deceptive because it lppks effortless.
I think he has the worst passing of the young halfback options, to be honest. Good ball runner but slow passer.
I would rate them all about the same with their passing. All good enough but all prone to spraying a pass every now and then.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree with everyone on Ardie's game last night. We may need to remember I doubt he would get that leeway in a test. That really was a hesitant display by the Blues, they looked a little lost at times, and certainly struggled to connect.
Yes correct. He's immense, don't get me wrong, but yes, and I am a Moana fan, but he does get the rub of the green at breakdown time especially in home games. Last night, and the first Highlanders fixture were classic examples of where he won a few that he probably wouldn't at test level. The Blues also didn't enjoy the physicality Moana bought.
On Rieko, is it worth trying him at right wing with Proctor at centre? He's still a world class defender don't get me wrong and I'm happy enough to see him in the team, but yes, having him wider would free him up on attack and I don't think we need to see another season of Sevu Reece out there when we already know that he's not the answer like he is at Super level.
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@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
@Canes4life said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
Ardie is insane. Fuck you all that ever thought he wasn’t AB level. He’s on another planet.
Who thought anyone holds a grudge for nine years about an opinion about a player not being as good as another player in that moment nine years ago.
Maybe change that to the last few years and you’d be a bit more accurate with that statement.
