Highlanders 2025
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@Canes4life said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
Perhaps to get the thread back on track (not hypocritical at all). We still have what seems like an obvious route to the top six. It will require the team to really step up but injured players are coming back and the top 23 is finally insight.
Can we beat the chiefs this weekend? Maybe. But a loosing bonus point and no injures is a must.
Crusaders at home. Definitely vulnerable and at home, the highlanders have a real chance and I back them. Close win
Moana: this has to be a bonus point win.
Bye: perfect timing after three big games. Injured players are back, a good rest before the final three games
Hurricanes: a must win. Back the team to do it. Close win
Crusaders: tougher at home. Has to be a bonus point loss at least
Chiefs: Chiefs will likely be fighting for a top 2 finish in this game so will come out firing. Tough one at home, bonus point loss.
Leaves the Highlanders with 33 points with hopefully a positive points differential. May be enough to sneak into 6.
Can’t see you guys beating us at home with our best side on the park. Maybe a bonus point defeat would be a fair estimate.
It’s the second “easiest” game on the highlanders schedule. So it is a must win. Hurricanes have been far from convincing and the best players have been flaky. Think it will be a bit closer than you think.
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@KiwiInLondon they will just select Petone Jesus from now on and win the RWC.
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@Canes4life said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
Perhaps to get the thread back on track (not hypocritical at all). We still have what seems like an obvious route to the top six. It will require the team to really step up but injured players are coming back and the top 23 is finally insight.
Can we beat the chiefs this weekend? Maybe. But a loosing bonus point and no injures is a must.
Crusaders at home. Definitely vulnerable and at home, the highlanders have a real chance and I back them. Close win
Moana: this has to be a bonus point win.
Bye: perfect timing after three big games. Injured players are back, a good rest before the final three games
Hurricanes: a must win. Back the team to do it. Close win
Crusaders: tougher at home. Has to be a bonus point loss at least
Chiefs: Chiefs will likely be fighting for a top 2 finish in this game so will come out firing. Tough one at home, bonus point loss.
Leaves the Highlanders with 33 points with hopefully a positive points differential. May be enough to sneak into 6.
Can’t see you guys beating us at home with our best side on the park. Maybe a bonus point defeat would be a fair estimate.
It’s the second “easiest” game on the highlanders schedule. So it is a must win. Hurricanes have been far from convincing and the best players have been flaky. Think it will be a bit closer than you think.
The Canes have been unconvincing yes but we haven’t had our best team on the park this year yet after being shafted with injuries from the get go. I’m predicting the Canes to be a much better side by the time that fixture comes around. You’ll find it will end up being one of the harder games to win on that remaining fixture list once the likes of Aumua, Lomax etc get into form. Am I saying it will be a hiding, no, but it won’t be easy as you’re suggesting. The Landers are also on a horrible losing streak to the Canes so that has to be factored in as well.
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@Bones said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon they will just select Petone Jesus from now on and win the RWC.
We already do, he plays no 8.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@handa457 said in Highlanders 2025:
Sounds like JJ is planning on cutting some contracts short next season. Wonder if Michaels, Wingham, Falefaga and Hastie all get cut?
Faleafaga going to Japan so I hear… Michaels and Wingham clearly aren’t rated, but may depend on if they can get someone better
Here's a left field pick too - I wonder if Bell gets cut and Ioane Mounau from the crusaders gets picked up?
Both signed to their respective sides till 2026. The fact Bell has been picked over Taylor this week I think is telling. Offers more grunt work at this moment in time… I think hooker would be the least of our worries.
faleafaga would be disappointing, thought he was part of the "long term youth rebuild" and we havent seen loads of him yet
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@Canes4life said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@Canes4life said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
Perhaps to get the thread back on track (not hypocritical at all). We still have what seems like an obvious route to the top six. It will require the team to really step up but injured players are coming back and the top 23 is finally insight.
Can we beat the chiefs this weekend? Maybe. But a loosing bonus point and no injures is a must.
Crusaders at home. Definitely vulnerable and at home, the highlanders have a real chance and I back them. Close win
Moana: this has to be a bonus point win.
Bye: perfect timing after three big games. Injured players are back, a good rest before the final three games
Hurricanes: a must win. Back the team to do it. Close win
Crusaders: tougher at home. Has to be a bonus point loss at least
Chiefs: Chiefs will likely be fighting for a top 2 finish in this game so will come out firing. Tough one at home, bonus point loss.
Leaves the Highlanders with 33 points with hopefully a positive points differential. May be enough to sneak into 6.
Can’t see you guys beating us at home with our best side on the park. Maybe a bonus point defeat would be a fair estimate.
It’s the second “easiest” game on the highlanders schedule. So it is a must win. Hurricanes have been far from convincing and the best players have been flaky. Think it will be a bit closer than you think.
The Canes have been unconvincing yes but we haven’t had our best team on the park this year yet after being shafted with injuries from the get go. I’m predicting the Canes to be a much better side by the time that fixture comes around. You’ll find it will end up being one of the harder games to win on that remaining fixture list once the likes of Aumua, Lomax etc get into form. Am I saying it will be a hiding, no, but it won’t be easy as you’re suggesting. The Landers are also on a horrible losing streak to the Canes so that has to be factored in as well.
Not the Canes thread, but there are a lot of assumptions here. Outside of Higgins & Proctor, who else is really left to come back - and midfield has hardly been an issue.
What if these Highlanders players get themselves fit and we play better?
I’m not suggesting the Landers win this game, because for starters it is weeks away, but as a general point it is incredibly naive to expect any teams form to just magically turnaround from here, because that traditionally hasn’t ever happened in Super Rugby. I’d wager that the current top six stays as it is.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@handa457 said in Highlanders 2025:
Sounds like JJ is planning on cutting some contracts short next season. Wonder if Michaels, Wingham, Falefaga and Hastie all get cut?
Faleafaga going to Japan so I hear… Michaels and Wingham clearly aren’t rated, but may depend on if they can get someone better
faleafaga would be disappointing, thought he was part of the "long term youth rebuild" and we havent seen loads of him yet
Would he really though? In the 12 games he has appeared in, we have won just 2. He has skills to break a game open, but I think the sample size of around 500 minutes (+ what we have seen for Otago) is that he can’t control a game at all.
I’ve said it for a long-time, he should be played in the midfield, or even at fullback.
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@frugby i think thats kind of what im feeling, rather than changing the plan we had for him as we see what he naturally....we let him go (maybe)
was it jonah that played loosies through school? when it was clear his strengths might lay elsewhere they didn't just let him go
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby i think thats kind of what im feeling, rather than changing the plan we had for him as we see what he naturally....we let him go (maybe)
was it jonah that played loosies through school? when it was clear his strengths might lay elsewhere they didn't just let him go
There are also other factors at play (such as coachability/attitude to non-selection)... not worth the hassle for a player who despite his talents, is not that good.
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@frugby fair enough
its also not so much him specifically, it was just part of the thing i was optimistic about, we've had a couple of years where the results continue to be average...but there was hope in the long term plan...and its starting to feel like the old days, go form year to year hoping someone gets ignored in auckland and they come down aiming to prove something
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby fair enough
its also not so much him specifically, it was just part of the thing i was optimistic about, we've had a couple of years where the results continue to be average...but there was hope in the long term plan...and its starting to feel like the old days, go form year to year hoping someone gets ignored in auckland and they come down aiming to prove something
Slightly glass half-empty way to look at it I think.
2022:
Withy - Success
Ma'u - Still young for a prop. Perhaps hasn't come on as we'd have liked, but a solid Super Rugby level prop. Success2023
Arscott - Has served a purpose, but will go down as a failure, though really he is only getting replaced because there are better local options.
Holland - Success
Millar - Came on really nicely back end of last season, and will hopefully do the same again this season. If nothing else a good squad option, and it is hardly like we missed out on anyone to keep him... a success at this juncture2024 - Ramped things up a notch
Taylor - Jury's out, but again at the time we signed him it was decent talent ID and we didn't miss out on anyone
Bell - Started nearly every game last year, and has worked his way back in now. Does the core well roll, and again, we didn't miss out on anyone to get him. Test on both of these will be how our hooking stocks are by 2027, because there is going to be plenty of moving parts around the country
Haig - Success
Hastie - Decent enough talent ID and has had his moments this year. If Pledger wasn't around, he'd probably be kept on, so hardly a massive failure
Faleafaga - Miss
Te Hiwi - Miss2025
Whaanga - Jury's out
Stodart - Looks like it should be a success2026(?)
Pledger, Tengbald & Harvey - Three closer to the elite end level of talentI think the question you have to ask yourself is who we might have signed instead of these guys in the past. There isn't one player that springs to mind who has proven himself elsewhere, that we missed out on by focusing local to bulk out the squad.
In recent years we let Josh Moorby go to sign Mosese Dawai and Kris Kuridrani. Even this year, we signed Lui Naeta and left out Semisi Tupou Taieloa. I don't think Blair Ryall is perfect, but he might have been better than Michael Loft to cover the blindside.All going well by 2027, conceivably you might have de Groot, Tengbald, Holland, Haig, Withy, Stodart, Pledger & Millar all as first choice players.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@Canes4life said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
@Canes4life said in Highlanders 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
Perhaps to get the thread back on track (not hypocritical at all). We still have what seems like an obvious route to the top six. It will require the team to really step up but injured players are coming back and the top 23 is finally insight.
Can we beat the chiefs this weekend? Maybe. But a loosing bonus point and no injures is a must.
Crusaders at home. Definitely vulnerable and at home, the highlanders have a real chance and I back them. Close win
Moana: this has to be a bonus point win.
Bye: perfect timing after three big games. Injured players are back, a good rest before the final three games
Hurricanes: a must win. Back the team to do it. Close win
Crusaders: tougher at home. Has to be a bonus point loss at least
Chiefs: Chiefs will likely be fighting for a top 2 finish in this game so will come out firing. Tough one at home, bonus point loss.
Leaves the Highlanders with 33 points with hopefully a positive points differential. May be enough to sneak into 6.
Can’t see you guys beating us at home with our best side on the park. Maybe a bonus point defeat would be a fair estimate.
It’s the second “easiest” game on the highlanders schedule. So it is a must win. Hurricanes have been far from convincing and the best players have been flaky. Think it will be a bit closer than you think.
The Canes have been unconvincing yes but we haven’t had our best team on the park this year yet after being shafted with injuries from the get go. I’m predicting the Canes to be a much better side by the time that fixture comes around. You’ll find it will end up being one of the harder games to win on that remaining fixture list once the likes of Aumua, Lomax etc get into form. Am I saying it will be a hiding, no, but it won’t be easy as you’re suggesting. The Landers are also on a horrible losing streak to the Canes so that has to be factored in as well.
Not the Canes thread, but there are a lot of assumptions here. Outside of Higgins & Proctor, who else is really left to come back - and midfield has hardly been an issue.
What if these Highlanders players get themselves fit and we play better?
I’m not suggesting the Landers win this game, because for starters it is weeks away, but as a general point it is incredibly naive to expect any teams form to just magically turnaround from here, because that traditionally hasn’t ever happened in Super Rugby. I’d wager that the current top six stays as it is.
Well a good 10 for one. Godfrey and Cameron due back likely before that game. Flanders will come back in at 6. Those additions, on-top of getting Billy Proctor back will make the Canes far harder to beat.
This season is unlike any other and being in the bottom 6 doesn’t mean you’re that far from playoff contention unlike previous years because the games are so close. That’s a brave wager considering it’s likely the Force will drop out with a tough remaining schedule as well. They’ve had a very favourable draw thus far with the majority of their games being played in Perth.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby pointing to the guys currently not winning regularly doesnt help things
You have to be patient. This squad (particularly in the forwards) is still two years off coming into its prime.
Because I am so confident in this, a Potential Highlanders Squad by 2027 (Bold Indicates Local/U20):
Hookers:
Vikena (25)
Bell (27)
Taylor (23)Props:
de Groot (28)
Bartlett (24)
LooseheadMa'u (26)
Kautai (30)
TightheadLocks:
Holland (24)
Tengblad (21)
Dunshea (31)
LockLoose Forwards:
Haig (25)
Withy (26)
Howden (26)
Stodart (23)
Lasaqa (25)
Number Eight
Openside
Loose ForwardHalfbacks:
Pledger (21)
Fakatava (27)
Lennox (23)First Fives:
Millar (24)
Robinson (27)
Muliaina (20)Midfielders:
Tavatavanawai (29)
J Whaanga (23)
Harvey (22)
Midfielder
MidfielderOutside Backs:
Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (25)
Hurley (21)
Tangitau (24)
Nareki (29)
Winger
WingerIf 2026 was to be another improvement, then you might even see some guys stick around as squad options for 2027 rather than heading offshore. Tangitau is going to be the big piece of the jigsaw if you want to compete for the title, because he is impossible to replace. I genuinely believe this squad is as good as you can cope for in this day and age where talent ID is so much better.
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This post is deleted!
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We are like a kid who gets a new toy. Our new toys are players who get selected in national U20 squads. They must immediately be picked. Which means we miss out on some of the slower burn players.
It is happening around the country not just with us. It is just more visible where we have a lack of depth.
@frugby and I have some differing views on players. But generally the theme around filing up spots with under prepared players rings true.
The pathway of a year out of high school, NZ U20s and Super isn't sustainable for every player.
There are several guys I am concerned about. Josh Whaanga is the biggest one in my book. I can see a situation. Where he just gets scraped. Same with Te Hiwi, who is a tank of a bloke. A lot of other franchises have you blokes in and around squads for three years before they properly start. It looks like at times we have a sink or swim philosophy at 21.
Your lads like Blair Ryall, Tosi, Moorby, Tupou (real Southland theme there) we have missed out on they have gone and played well elsewhere.
And a slight glance at your 27 squad. Shaun Kempton should hopefully be there too. As long as he can get to size. That kid is a freak.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby pointing to the guys currently not winning regularly doesnt help things
You have to be patient. This squad (particularly in the forwards) is still two years off coming into its prime.
Because I am so confident in this, a Potential Highlanders Squad by 2027 (Bold Indicates Local/U20):
Hookers:
Vikena (25)
Bell (27)
Taylor (23)Props:
de Groot (28)
Bartlett (24)
LooseheadMa'u (26)
Kautai (30)
TightheadLocks:
Holland (24)
Tengblad (21)
Dunshea (31)
LockLoose Forwards:
Haig (25)
Withy (26)
Howden (26)
Stodart (23)
Lasaqa (25)
Number Eight
Openside
Loose ForwardHalfbacks:
Pledger (21)
Fakatava (27)
Lennox (23)First Fives:
Millar (24)
Robinson (27)
Muliaina (20)Midfielders:
Tavatavanawai (29)
J Whaanga (23)
Harvey (22)
Midfielder
MidfielderOutside Backs:
Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (25)
Hurley (21)
Tangitau (24)
Nareki (29)
Winger
WingerIf 2026 was to be another improvement, then you might even see some guys stick around as squad options for 2027 rather than heading offshore. Tangitau is going to be the big piece of the jigsaw if you want to compete for the title, because he is impossible to replace. I genuinely believe this squad is as good as you can cope for in this day and age where talent ID is so much better.
I'd he highly surprised if most of the older guys like Nareki, Dunshea, and there should hopefully be room made for Kempton in the hooking spot.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
There are several guys I am concerned about. Josh Whaanga is the biggest one in my book. I can see a situation. Where he just gets scraped. Same with Te Hiwi, who is a tank of a bloke. A lot of other franchises have you blokes in and around squads for three years before they properly start. It looks like at times we have a sink or swim philosophy at 21.
What makes you concerned about Josh Whaanga to the point he gets scraped? It’s his first year in the squad as a fully contracted player and has just turned 21 last month… you aren’t exactly going to throw him to the wolves when there are TUJ and Tele’a ahead of him at 13 along with Tangitau in 14 doing good jobs.
You compare other squads having players around for three years before they properly start, perhaps that is the approach with Whaanga.
He took steps forward last year in the NPC and I expect that to continue again this NPC season. Next year we can expect to see some of him in super. From everything I’ve been hearing they are very happy with how he is progressing and maturing.
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
There are several guys I am concerned about. Josh Whaanga is the biggest one in my book. I can see a situation. Where he just gets scraped. Same with Te Hiwi, who is a tank of a bloke. A lot of other franchises have you blokes in and around squads for three years before they properly start. It looks like at times we have a sink or swim philosophy at 21.
What makes you concerned about Josh Whaanga to the point he gets scraped? It’s his first year in the squad as a fully contracted player and has just turned 21 last month… you aren’t exactly going to throw him to the wolves when there are TUJ and Tele’a ahead of him at 13 along with Tangitau in 14 doing good jobs.
You compare other squads having players around for three years before they properly start, perhaps that is the approach with Whaanga.
He took steps forward last year in the NPC and I expect that to continue again this NPC season. Next year we can expect to see some of him in super. From everything I’ve been hearing they are very happy with how he is progressing and maturing.
More a concern than anything in particular. I am hoping we do take the long approach and it works out. It is more the current situation which seems a guy gets a game or two. Gets schooled by a former international. Then goes back to club rugby without seeing them again.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
There are several guys I am concerned about. Josh Whaanga is the biggest one in my book. I can see a situation. Where he just gets scraped. Same with Te Hiwi, who is a tank of a bloke. A lot of other franchises have you blokes in and around squads for three years before they properly start. It looks like at times we have a sink or swim philosophy at 21.
Definitely a balance to be struck. Whaanga I don’t really think is in selection consideration this season, will get a better view on him in time. I think part of the sink or swim is down to the fact that guys like Te Hiwi for example were never that good in the first place (Poor talent ID). Umaga-Jensen for example, took several years to finally crack it, but when he was the same age, there was clear signs.
Your lads like Blair Ryall, Tosi, Moorby, Tupou (real Southland theme there) we have missed out on they have gone and played well elsewhere.
Can’t blame ourselves for Tosi I don’t think… Moorby and Tupou Taieloa though we have shot ourselves in the foot
And a slight glance at your 27 squad. Shaun Kempton should hopefully be there too. As long as he can get to size. That kid is a freak.
Hooker could be a real test of this regime. Do you back local or do you go for the best in class? Kempton to me is another Taylor. Good eye-catching skills, but lacks the out and out grunt of his peers. Bell is the opposite, does the grunt, but not the flashy stuff. Vikena is somewhere in the middle, and is definitely worth persisting with. Considering the logjam up the road, we’d be dumb not to enquire about Ouderyn. FWIW, if we can't get a real star like that, I'd stick rather than twisting.
