Next Broadcasting Deal
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Nepia said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@mariner4life said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
objectively the math doesn't add up to a huge deal.
A small population with what appears to be a shrinking percentage actively engaged in or with rugby.
One realistic broadcast option, with no free-to-air interest.
A lack of product at key times. The season is stretched too long with too many gaps, and not enough games in prime slots regularly. Even worse during the ridiculously extended test season with no games for weeks.
Half the product being Super Rugby which gets nothing but bad press and bad reviews. Another portion being NPC rugby played by kids and club players in front of their families.You throw in NZR moves to further piss off the supporter base like the sabaticals which allow household names to not only miss half the broadcasted product, but to go play in other markets. Or taking test matches away from NZ and playing in the states.
The numbers guys at Sky aren't stupid.
Compare and contrast to NRL/AFL. More people. More product. More engagement. Constant cheerleading about the amazing product. Genuine competition driven by the free-to-air channels. And they reap the rewards.
Cheers for the discussion points ever though I don't agree with a bunch of it (you and I want different stuff from our rugby, that's fine), but obviously agree with the market size problem.
Don't agree with the usual bring up the NRL/ARL comparison, it's a given that rugby can't compete with that in Australia, but that has always been true, and a 20+ million competitive broadcasting market is a completely different beast. But, it's not hugely relevant to NZ even though the NZ sports media have been dick riding the NRL bandwagon the last two years.
However, I do believe that rugby is still the golden goose for Sky. I know on the Fern a lot are fans of a range of sports (cricket, NRL, US sports etc) so a sports package has value outside of rugby, but many of the people I know in real life have it mainly for the rugby still. I still think it drives subscriptions for Sky so if they whittle the product down anymore I 'm not as confident as you in their non stupidness.
i dont agree there is nothing to be learnt form things like the AFL.....the fact melbourne alone can be home to 9 fully profession clubs (all bigger than any NZ rugby team, plus another two moved interstate but with large melbourne support) and will huge numbers to the ground every week...makes you think NZ should be able to do better...we just need a seachange....i just dont see much of an effort to actually get more people watching, comes across as arrogant, "we're NZR...we just play and people will watch"
Oh yeah, I'm not claiming there's nothing to be learnt from AFL etc, but I think we need to acknowledge that there are pretty big differences. AFL has always had huge crowd support right?,Even the NRL has only fairly recently started having big crowd numbers. I think this year was the highest average of the NRL era.
@Kiwiwomble said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
the thing i ask myself...if there isn't competition for the rights....why? if its becasue these other companies dont see value in it then thats the main sign our product isn't good and we need to change it
my personal feeling is its only us rugby weirdos that truely care about having the best players playing the best rugby at all times....but the the market of people that just want some sport with a competitive and understandable competition with some fluff like fantasy or drafts is much larger
We don't have the media landscape in NZ, probably due to market size. I'm sure TVNZ and TV3 etc would love to bid for the rights, but I assume they don't have as deep a pockets as Oz FTV channels to make that feasible.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
the thing i ask myself...if there isn't competition for the rights....why? if its becasue these other companies dont see value in it then thats the main sign our product isn't good and we need to change it
There certainly won't be competition within NZ. TVNZ has been busy cutting jobs/shows and trying to find $30M to survive. They have inherited the cricket from Spark Sport but it is a sport that lends itself to having ads after every over. There is no way people would watch rugby filled with ad breaks. Sky does that for selected sport on SkyOpen.
TV3/Newshub no longer exists in its previous form and is now part of Stuff. Bascially, the only real alternatives are international streaming services.
-
@Bovidae said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
way people would watch rugby filled with ad breaks
disagree. The free-to-air NRL, AFL and Origin games are chock full of ads, and they rate through the roof.
-
@Bovidae said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Kiwiwomble said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
the thing i ask myself...if there isn't competition for the rights....why? if its becasue these other companies dont see value in it then thats the main sign our product isn't good and we need to change it
TV3/Newshub no longer exists in its previous form and is now part of Stuff. Bascially, the only real alternatives are international streaming services.
Thats kind of what i was getting at, but getting an international streamer on board means a product that can be sold to new overseas fans like we might follow premier league football or the NFL....and to my mind to sell it to a new market we need a better product, one longer comp rather than two different ones with different formats etc...one long home and away league...easy to understand
@Nepia said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Kiwiwomble said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Nepia said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@mariner4life said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
objectively the math doesn't add up to a huge deal.
A small population with what appears to be a shrinking percentage actively engaged in or with rugby.
One realistic broadcast option, with no free-to-air interest.
A lack of product at key times. The season is stretched too long with too many gaps, and not enough games in prime slots regularly. Even worse during the ridiculously extended test season with no games for weeks.
Half the product being Super Rugby which gets nothing but bad press and bad reviews. Another portion being NPC rugby played by kids and club players in front of their families.You throw in NZR moves to further piss off the supporter base like the sabaticals which allow household names to not only miss half the broadcasted product, but to go play in other markets. Or taking test matches away from NZ and playing in the states.
The numbers guys at Sky aren't stupid.
Compare and contrast to NRL/AFL. More people. More product. More engagement. Constant cheerleading about the amazing product. Genuine competition driven by the free-to-air channels. And they reap the rewards.
Cheers for the discussion points ever though I don't agree with a bunch of it (you and I want different stuff from our rugby, that's fine), but obviously agree with the market size problem.
Don't agree with the usual bring up the NRL/ARL comparison, it's a given that rugby can't compete with that in Australia, but that has always been true, and a 20+ million competitive broadcasting market is a completely different beast. But, it's not hugely relevant to NZ even though the NZ sports media have been dick riding the NRL bandwagon the last two years.
However, I do believe that rugby is still the golden goose for Sky. I know on the Fern a lot are fans of a range of sports (cricket, NRL, US sports etc) so a sports package has value outside of rugby, but many of the people I know in real life have it mainly for the rugby still. I still think it drives subscriptions for Sky so if they whittle the product down anymore I 'm not as confident as you in their non stupidness.
i dont agree there is nothing to be learnt form things like the AFL.....the fact melbourne alone can be home to 9 fully profession clubs (all bigger than any NZ rugby team, plus another two moved interstate but with large melbourne support) and will huge numbers to the ground every week...makes you think NZ should be able to do better...we just need a seachange....i just dont see much of an effort to actually get more people watching, comes across as arrogant, "we're NZR...we just play and people will watch"
Oh yeah, I'm not claiming there's nothing to be learnt from AFL etc, but I think we need to acknowledge that there are pretty big differences. AFL has always had huge crowd support right?,Even the NRL has only fairly recently started having big crowd numbers. I think this year was the highest average of the NRL era.
just double checking and the average attendance in the late 80's or early 90's seems to be 10k-20k....which doesnt feel much more than we use to see at NPC and then super in the 90's...although i might be romanticising
-
Newscorp in its current form runs print media/news websites as well as streaming of games which is also now getting stronger in their social media channels too. AFL and NRL also have a FTA angle as part of the deal for some games and the FTA also play their part (also in the deal). AFL and NRL tap into this, including drafts/fantasy that also tap into this.
I dont think NZR does enough in all mediums to sell their products. Sky only pays for whats in its own scope. For me this is more on NZR not Sky. -
-
@Bones said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Nepia said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
they lag behind Netflix and Disney.
Is that the case in NZ?
Data is a bit old but Prime had roughly 450k subscribers and Disney 1.25m subscribers according to this article.
Islands in the stream - New Zealand Marketing Magazine
With streaming services introducing ads, what does this mean for brands looking for new audiences, and how are local operators responding?
I couldn't find any recent data. Maybe Amazon the store is bigger in NZ now and that has increased subsciptions?
-
@Nepia geez, a quarter of the population? And also a sixth as many subscribers as the the UK by the looks of things. Didn't expect Disney to be so popular.
I'm guessing with prime being a late comer those stats might have changed.
But I digress.....
-
@Bones said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Nepia geez, a quarter of the population? And also a sixth as many subscribers as the the UK by the looks of things. Didn't expect Disney to be so popular.
I'm guessing with prime being a late comer those stats might have changed.
But I digress.....
Yeah seems high for Disney ... but I guess - kids.
-
@Nepia said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Bones said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Nepia geez, a quarter of the population? And also a sixth as many subscribers as the the UK by the looks of things. Didn't expect Disney to be so popular.
I'm guessing with prime being a late comer those stats might have changed.
But I digress.....
Yeah seems high for Disney ... but I guess - kids.
I figured the rest of the world has kids too, pretty sure I've seen some over here.
-
i considered Disney+ one of the big ones, maybe not netflix big but in the running with all the rest, with the marvel stuff (previously) and Star wars i have probably watch it more than Amazon
-
@Kiwiwomble had it for a couple of months, got into The Bear but found it pretty shit to navigate and couldn't figure out what star wars or marvel stuff was the good ones. Use prime all the time.
I was surprised at how big Disney is but it's not as big as prime.
-
Disney in Australia are starting to consider their sports platform, so it could be a possibility down the road they look to do the same thing here.
Could Disney pull sports from DAZN-Foxtel in Australia this July?
And has Disney-ESPN just signalled greater international intentions to keep the NFL?
-
@Bones said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Kiwiwomble had it for a couple of months, got into The Bear but found it pretty shit to navigate and couldn't figure out what star wars or marvel stuff was the good ones. Use prime all the time.
I was surprised at how big Disney is but it's not as big as prime.
do you have paramount+ over there? was disappointed when i saw how many shows advertised on prime we're actually behind a second subscription
-
@Bones said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Kiwiwomble had it for a couple of months, got into The Bear but found it pretty shit to navigate and couldn't figure out what star wars or marvel stuff was the good ones. Use prime all the time.
I was surprised at how big Disney is but it's not as big as prime.
I'm almost the opposite of you, I find Amazon so annoying to navigate. I find shows by accident or if people tell me and as @Kiwiwomble notes it's just filled with essentially ads for shows and movies on other platforms or PPV. I've mostly been watching Paramount+ shows on it as the good ones are easier to find.
My actual favourite for quality is Apple TV+. But I should suspend it for a few months every year while waiting for shows to catch up, but I always forget.
-
@Nepia said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
My actual favourite for quality is Apple TV+. But I should suspend it for a few months every year while waiting for shows to catch up, but I always forget.
I made use of the free weekend recently to catch up on a couple of shows on Apple TV+ but will eventually re-subscribe as I am way behind. Dropping shows weekly is one of the disadvantages of this platform but makes sense for Apple.
-
@Bovidae said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Nepia said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
My actual favourite for quality is Apple TV+. But I should suspend it for a few months every year while waiting for shows to catch up, but I always forget.
I made use of the free weekend recently to catch up on a couple of shows on Apple TV+ but will eventually re-subscribe as I am way behind. Dropping shows weekly is one of the disadvantages of this platform but makes sense for Apple.
The weekly shows annoys the fuck out of me, it's like I've returned to the 80s/90s.
I try to wait out Apple shows until all eps have dropped - which is another reason I should routinely cancel it.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Bones said in Next Broadcasting Deal:
@Kiwiwomble had it for a couple of months, got into The Bear but found it pretty shit to navigate and couldn't figure out what star wars or marvel stuff was the good ones. Use prime all the time.
I was surprised at how big Disney is but it's not as big as prime.
do you have paramount+ over there? was disappointed when i saw how many shows advertised on prime we're actually behind a second subscription
as an FYI, Paramount + do have their own app and by using it you can at different times of the year get bigger discounts on fees rather than going via prime. The catch is that their app is worse still
-
@bayimports yeah, had seen Paramount+ advertised independently more just the disappointment when you see something listed on prime and it has the little yellow symbol in the corner meaning i need yet another service
