All Blacks 2024
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Laurie Mains before he finally got over his anti Auckland bias
His long term captain was an Aucklander even when his bestie returned from injury.
His undroppable player (R Brooke) was an Aucklander.
He let his captain convince him to select an unwanted Zinny from Auckland and he went on to be a great.
More than half of the AB starting XV in the final match of 1992 were Aucklanders.
I don't think his bias was as big as you're making out it to be.
He did take too long to settle into his best team. And for all that, just like Foster, he could have plumped his legacy with a RWC win only to be thwarted by SA
Yeah, I don''t disagree he took a while to settle on his best team (and like Henry when he took over he deliberately tried to break up factions within the team) I only had an issue with the anti Auckland bias of the comment I responded to.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Laurie Mains before he finally got over his anti Auckland bias
His long term captain was an Aucklander even when his bestie returned from injury.
His undroppable player (R Brooke) was an Aucklander.
He let his captain convince him to select an unwanted Zinny from Auckland and he went on to be a great.
More than half of the AB starting XV in the final match of 1992 were Aucklanders.
I don't think his bias was as big as you're making out it to be.
He did take too long to settle into his best team. And for all that, just like Foster, he could have plumped his legacy with a RWC win only to be thwarted by SA
Yeah, I don''t disagree he took a while to settle on his best team (and like Henry when he took over he deliberately tried to break up factions within the team) I only had an issue with the anti Auckland bias of the comment I responded to.
Fair call. I wasn't disputing that mate
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
6/10 for the year from me. I expected (hoped) for better, but it’s clear now that success will be hard fought and won. Only real standout disappointment was the Argentina loss - that was a very poor outcome. Aside from today, I’ve been encouraged by the progress. I’m hoping it’s like when Lauri Mains took over, and there is a bit of rough stuff before we see the gold. The new players that have shined give me a lot of encouragement, but definitely need to see some fruit next year fo shizz.
It was 3 years of dross with Laurie Mains before he finally got over his anti Auckland bias and also got the boon of Lomu.
I hope Razor can evolve his attitude faster than Mains did.
It was that generational shift though. We held on too long with the Hansen era (fuck, still don’t understand how we lost that Lions series, after game 1), so now we need to reshape this team. Looks to me like Razor’s caught between wanting to win (KPI no 1) and blooding new players. Has he wasted his honeymoon period?
He's really done neither - 4 loses and new players mostly because of his faves injury or being naughty
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knee jerk reaction for the 2025 season - fowards generally not too bad this year..... backs.... hard to pencil anyone in outside of 9
- Ethan de Groot / Williams ----- pen them in.
- Codie Taylor / Aumua ------ pen them in
- Tyrel Lomax / Fletcher Newell --------------- pen them in
- Scott Barrett --- Shadow of the player he was last two years - captaincy not suiting him?
- Patrick Tuipulotu - probably his best season in black - Pen him in
(LOCKING pleasingly we have good competition in the locking department so pick on form) - Wallace Sititi - PEN HIM IN probably 8 --- ridiculous we needed an injury to see him selected
- Sam Cane - warrior -- thanks for the service -- position available ffs please pick on form. (Lakai possibly leading contender)
- Ardie Savea - passed his use by date - needs to earn selection
- Cam Roigard -- I'd pen him in but Ratima and Hotham are not bad so would select on form.
- Beauden Barrett at least 3 years passed his used by date
10 Damian McKenzie -- a better option than BB but like BBs dinky kicks.. Dmac can go sideways headless chicken a bit too much - POSITION OPEN - we need to be brave and select on form - Caleb Clarke - his best season and only outside back Id keep on form
- Anton Lienert-Brown . Jordie / good D zero creativity - position open
- Rieko Ioane -- Good D zero creativity - position open
- Mark Tele’a / Reece -- see yas we need youth and speed
- Will Jordan -- try scoring machine but I am not convinced -- select position on form and ffs choose a specialist 15 please
Unfortunately we have some how got to the point that players retain the jersey far too easily - selections should be ruthlessly earned.
rant over -- see you all in 2025
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
At the start f the season a lot here said, we can take a few loses, as long as we see gameplay/tactic improvements and new players brought in...
... well there is always 2025 I guess
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I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition.
That's the same thing we have been doing for over 2 decades, most of us here have figured out that doesn't work at highest levels of test rugby - Razor's grinding Crusaders gameplan does tho - so WTAF?
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition.
That's the same thing we have been doing for over 2 decades, most of us here have figured out that doesn't work at highest levels of test rugby - Razor's grinding Crusaders gameplan does tho - so WTAF?
Not to mention the famed Crusaders and Canty ground kicking game
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
You could tell Goldie was biting his tongue a lot whilst having to listen to Bates and Ta'avao's waffle. Don't get the hate for Wilson myself, think he's not bad.
He's easily the best of that lot. Bates is terrible and Sky seem to think giving the no.1 cheerleader (Kirwan) overseas trips is a good thing. I watched more of the buildup than I usually would and it confirmed that Cruden needs to be used more.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
Not to mention watching a coach take over the so called poisoned chalice of the Blues and win a title in his first year with grinding direct rugby that would convert to test rugby
There has to be a happy medium. It feels like we are far too loose, and take big risks at the moment. When we play direct, when we don't try to push the passes at every opportunity, we are very effective. We should still be able to express ourselves, but right now we need to spend more time rolling up the sleeves and doing the hard work of getting over the gain line and shifting bodies at the breakdown
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Laurie Mains before he finally got over his anti Auckland bias
His long term captain was an Aucklander even when his bestie returned from injury.
His undroppable player (R Brooke) was an Aucklander.
He let his captain convince him to select an unwanted Zinny from Auckland and he went on to be a great.
More than half of the AB starting XV in the final match of 1992 were Aucklanders.
I don't think his bias was as big as you're making out it to be.
Sotutu is Razor's Zinny but it's looking like neither Sotutu or Razor will have any redemption story for the current debacle.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.
I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
They're winning games against us with young players coming through.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
Don't get the hate for Wilson myself, think he's not bad.
Screams company man who'll say what he's told to. Legend as a player, but seriously limited as a commentator or analyst. Struck me as very sycophantic.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.
I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
They're winning games against us with young players coming through.
That’s a fair call. I guess it comes down to how much headroom for improvement you think we have. I think we can get 10-15% better, easily.
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2024:
knee jerk reaction for the 2025 season - fowards generally not too bad this year..... backs.... hard to pencil anyone in outside of 9
- Ethan de Groot / Williams ----- pen them in.
- Codie Taylor / Aumua ------ pen them in
- Tyrel Lomax / Fletcher Newell --------------- pen them in
- Scott Barrett --- Shadow of the player he was last two years - captaincy not suiting him?
- Patrick Tuipulotu - probably his best season in black - Pen him in
(LOCKING pleasingly we have good competition in the locking department so pick on form) - Wallace Sititi - PEN HIM IN probably 8 --- ridiculous we needed an injury to see him selected
- Sam Cane - warrior -- thanks for the service -- position available ffs please pick on form. (Lakai possibly leading contender)
- Ardie Savea - passed his use by date - needs to earn selection
- Cam Roigard -- I'd pen him in but Ratima and Hotham are not bad so would select on form.
- Beauden Barrett at least 3 years passed his used by date
10 Damian McKenzie -- a better option than BB but like BBs dinky kicks.. Dmac can go sideways headless chicken a bit too much - POSITION OPEN - we need to be brave and select on form - Caleb Clarke - his best season and only outside back Id keep on form
- Anton Lienert-Brown . Jordie / good D zero creativity - position open
- Rieko Ioane -- Good D zero creativity - position open
- Mark Tele’a / Reece -- see yas we need youth and speed
- Will Jordan -- try scoring machine but I am not convinced -- select position on form and ffs choose a specialist 15 please
Unfortunately we have some how got to the point that players retain the jersey far too easily - selections should be ruthlessly earned.
rant over -- see you all in 2025
Pretty bang on but I’d swap Tosi in for Newell and Vaa’i in for Tuipolotu. Tuipolotu has proven he’s better suited to coming off the bench and Vaa’i has been one of the top players for the ABs this year.
