All Blacks 2024
-
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
We've lost the equal most tests in a year (2022) since 2009 & all wins against England were extremely unconvincing - We almost threw all 3 England matches at the death FFS......
I think people got carried away after beating a poor English side who lost by 6 points to Australia (Ranked 10th), then an aging Irish side who showed they aren't really at the races against Argentina as well. If we look earlier in the season, the win against Australia in Sydney was also by the skin of our teeth. Not many convincing performances this year in the big games with a win now side and a huge amount of caps.....
I would still take Schmidt/Foster from 2023 were we actually won the RC convincingly, beat Argentina 42-10 & 44-6 in the Semi's, South Africa 36-20 at Mt Smart & only lost 12-10 in World Cup final (despite having 14 men) over this facade of 'improvement'.......
I think plenty of people would love to have Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick Aaron Smith, and Richie Mo'unga back in the mix and they would make a difference as they did in 2003.
The wins have been clunky as has been the attack and I think that comes down to the game plan.
Our best game was against Argentina at Eden Park. I thought the French game was probably our second best effort but we couldn't quite seal the deal.
-
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
I had to go so missed the last 20. Did Tosi make the field? I saw Patty T come on
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
We've lost the equal most tests in a year (2022) since 2009 & all wins against England were extremely unconvincing - We almost threw all 3 England matches at the death FFS......
I think people got carried away after beating a poor English side who lost by 6 points to Australia (Ranked 10th), then an aging Irish side who showed they aren't really at the races against Argentina as well. If we look earlier in the season, the win against Australia in Sydney was also by the skin of our teeth. Not many convincing performances this year in the big games with a win now side and a huge amount of caps.....
I would still take Schmidt/Foster from 2023 were we actually won the RC convincingly, beat Argentina 42-10 & 44-6 in the Semi's, South Africa 36-20 at Mt Smart & only lost 12-10 in World Cup final (despite having 14 men) over this facade of 'improvement'.......
I think plenty of people would love to have Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick Aaron Smith, and Richie Mo'unga back in the mix and they would make a difference as they did in 2003.
The wins have been clunky as has been the attack and I think that comes down to the game plan.
Our best game was against Argentina at Eden Park. I thought the French game was probably our second best effort but we couldn't quite seal the deal.
Even as little kids everyone knew they’d be superstars
-
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
We've lost the equal most tests in a year (2022) since 2009 & all wins against England were extremely unconvincing - We almost threw all 3 England matches at the death FFS......
I think people got carried away after beating a poor English side who have lost 5 on the bounce by the skin of our teeth, then an aging Irish side who showed they aren't really at the races against Argentina as well. If we look earlier in the season, the win against Australia in Sydney was also by the skin of our teeth. Not many convincing performances this year in the big games with a win now side and a huge amount of caps.....
I would still take Schmidt/Foster from 2023 were we actually won the RC convincingly, beat Argentina 42-10 & 44-6 in the Semi's, South Africa 36-20 at Mt Smart & only lost 12-10 in World Cup final (despite having 14 men) over this facade of 'improvement'.......
The losses were also all by the skin of their teeth. It goes both ways.
Sure, except one is recorded for posterity in the wrong column, forever diminishing a record earned over a century.
-
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
We almost threw all 3 England matches
We almost beat France and South Africa (twice) ...
.... beating a poor English side who lost by 6 points to Australia (Ranked 10th)
We beat Ireland who had beaten the World No.1 invincible Springboks....
Works both ways.
The results are what they are...no point complaining about almost unless you are going to celebrate the other almosts.
-
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean I'm a Cantabrian and this resonates with even me. As I said earlier, what business does Havilli even have being in the squad? He played a handful of super rugby games this year, and in them he was a liability cough Waratahs game. Then he got injured and walks into the All Blacks. Might be one of the worst All Blacks I've seen.
That jersey could and should be filled by Love or Narawa
The selection of Havilli and Blackadder combined with the call up of Fihaki gives me grave concerns.
On the positive side of the ledger I see glimpses of improvement in our manner of play. We've dominated aspects of games but not realised the benefits.
Hopefully these changes are deliberate and we're about to see it come together as the players gain familiarity and experience with it and each other.
But there needs to be some ruthlessness in selection next year rewarding form, regardless of SR franchise or province.
-
Selecting players you know in the first year (Havili, Blackadder) I have been able to stomach, but the Fihaki selection is just weird. If he keeps getting chances, he better be fucking great.
Other coaches have had projects (Eg, Toeva) but those players were so clearly talented that no-one really questioned why the coaches wanted to see them.
-
I think the big problem with the 2024 All Blacks is that the coaches are still trying to replicate the 2009-2016 All Blacks, but the game has moved on.
You need more muscle in the forwards, more backs who can kick and more flat out gas out wide these days.
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
We're damning SB with faint praise. His junior partner is doing all that "grunt work" as well as being our dominant lineout forward, good around the track and a threat at the ruck.
We've got far too comfortable with "he's going okay" players in the ABs. There isn't a single player on our team that can't be upgraded on.I'm not sure we have a better lock yet, but Holland is coming and Barrett and Vaaii are basically the same sort of player. So, knowing this coaching team, I guess Vaii goes to the bench....
My issue is that he's a pretty shit captain. I do like the way he is improving with his talk to the ref, but that decision today was just, un All Black like.
The game was there to be won, and he decided to keep it close. I don't think we can have a leader who thinks that way and still be effective.
BTW: If he didn't call the corner because we don't have any exception strike plays (assuming we can't get to a line out drive), then we need better coaches.
-
I think the big thing today showed, is the importance of 9 & 12 when you lack a world class 10.
Felt like we took huge steps back when Roigard went off as there was less of a threat around the ruck, meaning more attention was on B Barrett. As a result he then had to look wide, and ALB’s inability to run the crash ball took all the life out of our attack which looked really good - it was only then we went back to those silly little kicks.
I do wonder if (and granted a tinge of Highlanders bias) if Fakatava really does need to be looked at as the other halfback. For all his downside, he is probably the next best threat around the ruck (maybe Hotham?) and is quick to the breakdown. I really hope they have not written him off.
Have discussed in other threads, but really need Tupaea/McLeod to have a big season at 12, because they feel like more natural long-term solutions to the midfield depth than Lam for mine. Lam is a winger or centre at test level, and he ain’t better than Proctor.
-
-
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
I think the big thing today showed, is the importance of 9 & 12 when you lack a world class 10.
Felt like we took huge steps back when Roigard went off as there was less of a threat around the ruck, meaning more attention was on B Barrett. As a result he then had to look wide, and ALB’s inability to run the crash ball took all the life out of our attack which looked really good - it was only then we went back to those silly little kicks.
I do wonder if (and granted a tinge of Highlanders bias) if Fakatava really does need to be looked at as the other halfback. For all his downside, he is probably the next best threat around the ruck (maybe Hotham?) and is quick to the breakdown. I really hope they have not written him off.
Have discussed in other threads, but really need Tupaea/McLeod to have a big season at 12, because they feel like more natural long-term solutions to the midfield depth than Lam for mine. Lam is a winger or centre at test level, and he ain’t better than Proctor.
Pretty speculative about Lam. On what basis do you make these claims?
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby Ratima has been found out a little bit in the last couple of weeks. I still think he can improve, he needs to improve his speed of clearance, but he will feel the pressure to keep his spot next season
Ratima is a fantastic player, but reminds a little bit of the issue we had with Smith at the Highlanders. Incredible player, but not really a creative nine, so with an inferior 10 outside him, a lot of his good stuff is rendered useless
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
I think the big thing today showed, is the importance of 9 & 12 when you lack a world class 10.
Felt like we took huge steps back when Roigard went off as there was less of a threat around the ruck, meaning more attention was on B Barrett. As a result he then had to look wide, and ALB’s inability to run the crash ball took all the life out of our attack which looked really good - it was only then we went back to those silly little kicks.
I do wonder if (and granted a tinge of Highlanders bias) if Fakatava really does need to be looked at as the other halfback. For all his downside, he is probably the next best threat around the ruck (maybe Hotham?) and is quick to the breakdown. I really hope they have not written him off.
Have discussed in other threads, but really need Tupaea/McLeod to have a big season at 12, because they feel like more natural long-term solutions to the midfield depth than Lam for mine. Lam is a winger or centre at test level, and he ain’t better than Proctor.
Pretty speculative about Lam. On what basis do you make these claims?
Because 12 is a specialist position at test level. You need to be able to charge hard, distribute, and kick well - it is quite different to the role required at SR Level, hence why ALB works at 12 at SR level.
I think Lam has the carrying, but if he had those other attributes, he wouldn’t have been stuck out on the wing for most of his career. Far from a critique of Lam, who could still easily be the option on the wing.
-
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
I think the big thing today showed, is the importance of 9 & 12 when you lack a world class 10.
Felt like we took huge steps back when Roigard went off as there was less of a threat around the ruck, meaning more attention was on B Barrett. As a result he then had to look wide, and ALB’s inability to run the crash ball took all the life out of our attack which looked really good - it was only then we went back to those silly little kicks.
I do wonder if (and granted a tinge of Highlanders bias) if Fakatava really does need to be looked at as the other halfback. For all his downside, he is probably the next best threat around the ruck (maybe Hotham?) and is quick to the breakdown. I really hope they have not written him off.
Have discussed in other threads, but really need Tupaea/McLeod to have a big season at 12, because they feel like more natural long-term solutions to the midfield depth than Lam for mine. Lam is a winger or centre at test level, and he ain’t better than Proctor.
Pretty speculative about Lam. On what basis do you make these claims?
Because 12 is a specialist position at test level. You need to be able to charge hard, distribute, and kick well - it is quite different to the role required at SR Level, hence why ALB works at 12 at SR level.
I think Lam has the carrying, but if he had those other attributes, he wouldn’t have been stuck out on the wing for most of his career. Far from a critique of Lam, who could still easily be the option on the wing.
I disagree.
Firstly he has very good distribution.
However even if he didn't have good distriution the two giant Bok 12s have shown you don't need to be a good distributor or a good kicker.
Nonu only brought kicking into his game after he was established at 12 however again Lam actually has a good long punt on him.
Lam is an extremely physical defender which sets him apart from the other options.
Now setting aside the debate of whether he's suitable for the midfield for me he is actually the best option to have on the bench because if we pick a 10/15 like Mckenzie or Perofeta there we can pick Lam who can genuinely cover 12, 13, 11 and 14. He can offer impact and he can come in and replace players without having to rearrange the backline.
-
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby Ratima has been found out a little bit in the last couple of weeks. I still think he can improve, he needs to improve his speed of clearance, but he will feel the pressure to keep his spot next season
Ratima is a fantastic player, but reminds a little bit of the issue we had with Smith at the Highlanders. Incredible player, but not really a creative nine, so with an inferior 10 outside him, a lot of his good stuff is rendered useless
For me, his biggest problems are the charge downs, and his slow reaction time at the base of scrums and rucks. The difference when Cam is on is huge, he seems to have so much time, and just sweeps the ball off the deck to the 10 with ease
-
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
I think the big thing today showed, is the importance of 9 & 12 when you lack a world class 10.
Felt like we took huge steps back when Roigard went off as there was less of a threat around the ruck, meaning more attention was on B Barrett. As a result he then had to look wide, and ALB’s inability to run the crash ball took all the life out of our attack which looked really good - it was only then we went back to those silly little kicks.
I do wonder if (and granted a tinge of Highlanders bias) if Fakatava really does need to be looked at as the other halfback. For all his downside, he is probably the next best threat around the ruck (maybe Hotham?) and is quick to the breakdown. I really hope they have not written him off.
Have discussed in other threads, but really need Tupaea/McLeod to have a big season at 12, because they feel like more natural long-term solutions to the midfield depth than Lam for mine. Lam is a winger or centre at test level, and he ain’t better than Proctor.
Pretty speculative about Lam. On what basis do you make these claims?
Because 12 is a specialist position at test level. You need to be able to charge hard, distribute, and kick well - it is quite different to the role required at SR Level, hence why ALB works at 12 at SR level.
I think Lam has the carrying, but if he had those other attributes, he wouldn’t have been stuck out on the wing for most of his career. Far from a critique of Lam, who could still easily be the option on the wing.
History disagrees with you on this.
Name the two best midfielders we've had in the last 20 years, then talk about where they started as Super players.
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby Ratima has been found out a little bit in the last couple of weeks. I still think he can improve, he needs to improve his speed of clearance, but he will feel the pressure to keep his spot next season
Ratima is a fantastic player, but reminds a little bit of the issue we had with Smith at the Highlanders. Incredible player, but not really a creative nine, so with an inferior 10 outside him, a lot of his good stuff is rendered useless
For me, his biggest problems are the charge downs, and his slow reaction time at the base of scrums and rucks. The difference when Cam is on is huge, he seems to have so much time, and just sweeps the ball off the deck to the 10 with ease
Yeah I agree.
Comparing Smith to Ratima doesn't wash It's not the same problem. Smith may have often been one dimensional but unlike Ratima Smith got to the base of the ruck and cleared the ball quickly with a lightening pass.
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby Ratima has been found out a little bit in the last couple of weeks. I still think he can improve, he needs to improve his speed of clearance, but he will feel the pressure to keep his spot next season
Ratima is a fantastic player, but reminds a little bit of the issue we had with Smith at the Highlanders. Incredible player, but not really a creative nine, so with an inferior 10 outside him, a lot of his good stuff is rendered useless
For me, his biggest problems are the charge downs, and his slow reaction time at the base of scrums and rucks. The difference when Cam is on is huge, he seems to have so much time, and just sweeps the ball off the deck to the 10 with ease
I think Ratima has hit a wall the last couple of weeks.
He is young and it is his biggest season to date.
He could have done with a little bit of protection as everyone can see his form has dropped in the last few weeks.
He will come again but it is clear that Roigard is No. 1 now (and would have always been if it wasn’t for the injury)
