The Silver Fern

Well how good!

A tremendous day for NZ Cricket, a wonderful day for New Zealand.

For me personally there's a couple of reasons why I watch sport, of course there's the love of the game and the enjoyment of watching skilled people do something really well . But there's also a part of it which is just enjoying the triumph of the human spirit.

I watch sport for those moments of enjoyment when perhaps people/teams aren't as talented, or aren't as good but the people who just work a little bit harder, give a little bit more and succeed.

After the true heartbreak of the ODI final I wouldn't have blamed any of them for not being able to get out of bed or succumb to the thinking that "were just not meant to win one". I'm so glad that so many of those people that were there in 2019 on and off the field were there today share and enjoy the moment. Because it's a great story, it's a great moment of a team overcoming adversity and bad luck, of picking themselves up off the floor and succeeding.

It is a true story of the triumph of the human spirit.

I'm immensely proud of this team and the manner in which they won and the values of hard graft, humility and the simply dogged determination to keeping grinding out a result no matter how grim it is. It's just really nice to see the "good guys" win.

Admittedly I'm a new poster and must forewarn that future posts certainly wont be as poetic as this but dammit!! Today is a special day!!

A couple of points which seems to be an overall trend of the AB's rather than game specific comments.

1. Our attack is ok, we're scoring more than enough points to win games, I'm getting increasingly annoyed at the commentary that "We had chances to put away the game (i.e. score more points), but didn't take them". We shipped 38 against the Argies, and 31 against SA. If the thought is that if we just simply score 50 points a game and we will win, well goodness me - that's not smart or realistic thinking in the slightest. Which leads us into...

2. Our defence and disclipline has cost us badly, our poor disclipline has lead to us playing a lot of the game in the crunch moments in our own half. Our goal-line defence off the pick and go close to the line in particular has been awful, what makes this worse is that bashing the ball in close to the line is a low risk attacking method. We aren't asking teams to take chances or use high-risk plays to score points because they can bash through us playing low risk rugby This has to be fixed immediately or we will continue to lose games.

3. Our bench as a whole, quite simply has been dreadful. The quibble isn't even the fact that they're coming on and having no impact but the fact that they're making things CONSIDERABLY WORSE when they get onto the field. It's very odd because if you look at the players they are all "impact" players.
   Whether it's because they can't fit into the systems (player issue), or know the systems so they can fit in (coaching issue) or simpy dion't have the skills or temprement to fit into the game plan and execute (player and coaching issue) I really don't know. What I do know however is that when it comes to the use of the bench we are being outsmarted tatcially and executionally and ultimately that falls on the coachs.

So it's defence and the last 20 minutes of the game that are costing us dearly and we won't start a winning trend until we fix these.

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

I kind of expected this tbh when you look at Razor's assistants. Did anyone look at Holland and McDonald and think to themselves this is a star studded team?

Even more concerning how their respective franchises improved out of sight after they left...

Well it's a fustrating year so far, overall a highly conservative selection process that has very timidly put forward any new blood into the international ranks. I don't understand in a year where you would get a free pass for rebuilding the team that we would seek to roll out as many old war horses as possible instead of training new ones.

This team can't seem to play for a full 80 minutes, Arg & SA 1 it was our defense and when we get our defence better in SA2 our attack goes missing.

The fact an assistant coach is gone already show's there's definate alignment problems there.

Whilst inidivdual players have stepped up and performed the team as a whole has not, exits and disclipine are still poor and our impact off the bench is getting worse and worse.

Yes we were close against SA and could have won both if only rugby was a 60 minute game. The last 20 minutes really cost us and it was the same in the loss to Arg.

It's a real case of one step forward and one step backwards and the team appears to be going around in circles.

I'm hoping they click and it all comes together soon, but there doesn't seem to be any real improvement.

We can't compare ourselves to SA here.

SA saw an economic oppertunity to shift from SANZAR to the north that fitted with their already exisitng TV audience and could fill the coffers even more, while allowing the flexibility to pick players from overseas (the vast majority of which are playing in the same competition already). It was a win/win scenario for them.

Given NZ teams will not be in the northern hemisphere competion, or our union reaping the financial rewards of being in that competiton all we have set to gain is the loss of our players overseas.

It's not a like for like, or apt comparision.

@KiwiMurph said in RWC: France v All Blacks:

Finlay - such a Fozzie decision.

To be fair it's not like Roigard did much when he came on against SA. Maybe if he'd scored a brilliant individual try completely against the run of play in which he beat several defenders he might have done his chances some good?

But no - he didn't, we need the "slow but steady" Finlay to close out the game with his laborious passing from ruck to ruck.

Well a dog of a game really.

Some of the post match comments from the media have been plain silly - especially the talking about how we created oppertunites but didn't capitalise. Yeah there's a vain of truth there but FFS - shouldn't the record number of points ever conceded to Argentina be more the issue?

You are not going to win games against any tier 1 nation if you concede 38 points.

I must say it took me by surprise as I thought our defense had been fairly solid but my goodness, Argentina just looked dangerous everytime they had the ball, either in close our out wide. It was hard to pin down what was wrong with our defensive pattern as it appeared that everything was wrong with it.

Seeing Dmac standing one off the ruck as the pillar defender when the Argies were hammering our line for the go-ahead try really took the cake. A complete lack of urgency from our forwards to get around the corner and defend when it really mattered.

I'd love to see the missed tackle stats as I'm sure certain players really let themselves down here.

Our "strong" bench was hoplessly mismanged and in reality cost us the game. Instead of adding impact they added errors, subbing on players only made things worse. I feel the majority of the subs were put on too late. Savea at 8, Blackadder at 7 and Sititi at 6 to close out a game is amazing levels of stupidity - lets put on the most inexperienced, out of position and slow loose forward trio we can!!

A really dissapoiting loss, defensively weak and mentally weak when the pressure came on. We effectively gifted the ball to the Argies for the last 20 minutes and to give them credit they didn't need to be asked twice and easily closed out the match.

The "All Wokes" is still open as an option, with a logo of a volvo driving soccer mum and a mascot named Karen.

Well I'm glad to see that Johnny is being the bigger man and not stooping to Reiko's level and instead of keeping his gripes man to man and leaving them on the field has published them in a book so he can whinge and moan to the absolute maximum amount of people he possibly can.

Such class...

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:

@Windows97 the only other loosie with strong ball carrying ability is Akira. I'm so disappointed that we have not managed to harness his talent (for whatever reason). As much as I like Jacobson, he's not a test 6. He didn't play badly per se, but is not able to match the physicality of the big teams so we're always going to be under the pump.

Ironically Finau showed some promise in the 1 opportunity he had but of course he stayed at home so we could take an extra winger to "practice with".

Of course the fact that you need go-forward ball first before it's of any use to pass the ball to your wingers otherwise they simply stand as useless lumps on the sides of the field watching the horror unfold in front of them unable to do anything to stop seems to have escaped Foster and Co, as we saw on the weekend.

Still they'll be egg on my face when the AB's unleash attacking moves the likes of which we've never seen before throughout the knock out stages of this RWC thanks to all that additional practice they've been able to have.

Ioane - to Telea!!! Backpass to Barret, triple scissors with Clarke!! They're in again!! Unbelievable - I've never seen play like this from the All Blacks!! That's the final sewn up in an attacking display of rugby that will leave the world speechless for many years to come!!

Oh yes - I'll look back on this post and chuckle to myself - you got one over me Foster, you cunning genius of a man!! Silly me to ever doubt you.

Trying for a different take on all of this I don't particularly think that the current mess were in is all Fosters fault but we are simply watching a dynasty in decline.

It's kind of like arguing that Romulus Augustulus was the worst emperor of Rome as he was the one there when Rome finally fell apart - this would provide endless and circular debate for months.

However I do think it's fair to say that the dynasty from Henry to Hansen to Foster was simply one link too far.

Dynasty's ultimately fall apart due to their own hubris, a lack of new idea's, risk aversion due to not wanting to change what's worked in the past, inability to self critique and ultimately sitting on their own laurels till everyone else catch's up and then passes them by.

I think this is what were seeing unfold in front of us, it's not Fosters "fault" but he's certainly not the right coach to take us forward.

Simply put we've done the same thing for too long and now not only have the rest of the pack caught up - they're passing us by.

So to get rid of Foster isn't an incorrect school of thought - we desperately need someone with new ideas, a new way of doing things, the All Blacks need to be given a clean sweep and to start again with something new and Foster isn't new - he's part of the furniture.

And I guess that's the appeal with Robertson - he's seen as someone who will bring new ideas and new ways of doing things.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:

@Windows97

Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.

One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.

Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.

I can't say I share your optimisim.

It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.

BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.

I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.

Well the trend so far this year for the AB's has been good, terrible, good, terrible.

And given they were good against Wales and then terrible last week against Scotland the only logical conclusion one can draw is that they'll be good this weekend against England.

There's really no more need for comprehensive analysis than that, a sparkling win to finish the season I assure all of you.

Nonu/Smith for me as the best combination - maybe slightly influenced by the 2 WC's they managed to be a part of.

Nonu was big and physical but added more skill and nuance to his game as he progressed, just got better and better with age really.

Smith certainly not athletically the best AB you'd see (no disrespect) but one of the finest rugby brains I've seen. Seemed to go game after game without making a poor decision or being caught out of position.

It really was the ultimate combination of brawn, brains, skill and nuance.

And Dmac's combination with Smith was excellent off the phase play, standing flat to the line and forced defenders to come to him instead of standing deep and simply letting the defense drift across the field.

I agree with the sentiment here, rugby's become increasingly complicated to the point where it's incredibly difficult to explain the game to a casual viewer let alone someone who hasn't seen the game before.

Getting both teams to keep 15 players on the field seems an increasingly forlorn hope these days. Accidents with no intent are now red card offences - hence simple luck (or bad luck) can play a huge role in the outcome of the game.

The game is getting harder and harder to understand, and harder and harder to watch.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:

That to me was the difference. The ABs tries weren't scored from individual brilliance they were tries created through manipulation - something that has been rare in the ABs for years.

Yes agree with that, the AB's have been a hard watch recently as so much of the attack seems to be based off someone pulling something out of their ass or throwing the ball around in the hope that one of our backs gets a 1:1 with a fatty in the defensive line.

Rugby is beautiful to watch when a defense is manipulated, space is created and people run into that space. Maybe it's just me - but when you outthink your opposition to score instead of just using brute force or flair it's just so much more pleasing.

For me a lot of the appeal about Wags was that he didn't seem to have the highest amount of natural talent that a bowler could have but he threw himself 110% into the fray with a heart and passion that would overwhelm much "finer" batsmen and get results surpassing those of "better" bowlers.

You could see that on the pitch he absolutely gave it his all and as a fan that's all you ask of the people in your team.

Yes he had a style of bowling that some people may say was grubby, he would irritate and intimidate batsmen till they lashed out in frustration, anger or fear and that probably generated more of his wickets than line, length, swing or seam.

But to give him credit he had a style that he stuck to, executed well and got NZ crucial wickets bowling with a dead ball at times in the innings where it would be easy for the batting team to run away with it. And at the times the NZ bowlers had the edge he would provide relentless pressure to ensure the advantage didn't slip.

I loved the guys work rate, effort and passion. He deserves as much as anyone to be in that golden period of NZ test match cricket. Well played Wags, enjoy your retirement.

A combination of things...

We discovered due to the incumbents getting injured some good props (De Groot, Lomax, Newell) probably earlier than planned which has helped solidify our front row. Sam T was a good selection who has probably exceeded everyone's expectations.

SB has come of age in bulk, physicality and playing sense i.e. not giving away penalties all the time.

This means we now have a quality tight 5 instead of a "mobile tight 5" that at times showed great mobility going backwards against more experienced packs.

Frizell has finally found form adding balance to the loose forward trio that struggled for cohesion. Our forward pack is now pretty damn solid and physical to match.

RM and BB are playing much better than what I've seen in years, Dmac is putting good pressure on both of them to perform to maintain their spots, I think, at times a lack of pressure to maintain their spots added to some complacent play.

JB found his way into the midfield due to (again) the incumbents getting injured, thankfully he's never looked back, our midfield is finally adding some attack to the backline with now holding defenders in the midfield to counter their strong runs - which leaves space for the back 3.

Our wingers/FB have always been good, just haven't been given the space to work in.

So I would say some due to luck (front row and midfield) some due to persistence (RM, BB) and some due to coming of age (Frizzle, SB) cavet SB has always been good, this year he's bloody, bloody good.

And I think the changes to the coaching line-up have enabled the pack to be more physical the backline more fluid and as a whole the team having a more coherent game plan.

I could imagine that for a huge amount of the athletes that go the games they know they haven't got a snowballs chance in hell of winning a medal.

For some just getting to the games is a lifetime achievement, others winning a heat, doing a PB, making a final.

Whatever placing an athlete chooses to celebrate I'm not going to judge them on, we have no idea what they've gone through to get there, what they've given up in life to make it there or what they've suffered to get there.