The Silver Fern

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:

exactly. he is an expert, and we are deluded, know nothing amateurs.

The second part is definitely true.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:

you may be right but it feels a bit harsh.

The set piece has been really good, the scrum strong despite newbie front rowers, ad the lineout better than it has any real right to be.
Around the track they've been saved by Sititi I think, and then the running game of Patty T off the bench.

They were well beaten by the French pack in the 2nd half a week ago.

My opinion is the use and timing of substitutions has really hurt us. Guys are playing far too many minutes, quality of those minutes be damned. I feel like any sub in the last 10 is a complete waste of a player unless the guy on the field is totally cooked (in which case you have fucked up by not making the switch 10 minutes earlier).

Razor obviously feels that some players need to be on the field no matter what, which is why guys like Taylor, Savea, Cane, ScoBa play big minutes. This totally flies in the face of what appears to be working elsewhere, where fresh forwards are given 30-35 minutes to make a real difference in the game. We stubbornly stick to old school thinking.

The above says to me that Razor doesn't know how to coach to the talent he has available. If he did, not only would we be getting more change points-wise out of the relative strength of our set piece, but we also wouldn't have sacred cows in the pack who can't be subbed.

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:

Don't get the hate for Wilson myself, think he's not bad.

Screams company man who'll say what he's told to. Legend as a player, but seriously limited as a commentator or analyst. Struck me as very sycophantic.

Not great on The Breakdown, but much better on commentary where he has to speak off the cuff and call it as he sees it. Made some really good comments about how we are using Rieko - i.e. completing wasting his talents. And in fairness to Goldie, he was relatively critical on The Breakdown today.

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:

I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.

I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.

They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.

They're winning games against us with young players coming through.

We have some real potential particularly in our forwards, but what we lack - and which we have lacked since 2016 - but which RSA and France have, is brains both on and off the field. I have said on another thread that, if Razor has half a brain, he will try to turn this team into an adapted 10-man rugby team that bludgeons their opposition, plays for set pieces, and attacks only off counterattacking chaos ball - that would be making the most of our actual rather than imagined talents. This bullshit about "our DNA" really grinds my gears because the actual DNA of the best players we have available would be much better suited to an entirely different game plan.

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@junior said in All Blacks v France:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:

We win that game with Dmac starting, would have been up by 30 first half when we had the momentum. Fukn dumb selections cost us the game.

And then we take off Roigard 50th min for some dumb reason.

The way that first half played out I agree, the way DMac plays we would have made a lot more of our possession

What was evident today is that our game plan and ability to score points when on top depends heavily on the quickness of DMac's pass.

We built our lead on the back of continuity and a direct, forward orientated game plan. In the third quarter we moved away from that plan and tried to play wider without doing the hard work, and that allowed the French back in

What I am really getting at is that we didn't have a big enough halftime lead because, for all that good work up front, BB's slow passing was a real handbrake in us exploiting the space that we had created wider out.

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:

@LagerLout said in All Blacks v France:

We are miles off being a good team, personnel wise and strategy wise. We were bloody slow to the ruck in the second half. Our wingers are bollock slow. The only places we look dangerous are in in the starting front and back rows, the rest of it we are struggling. Feels like a bleak WC cycle to me. We had so much talent and where is it now.

I have pretty much the completely opposite view. NZ lost to one of the top four teams in the world at their fortress (and it is a fortress, the loudest and most partisan atmosphere you'll get at any ground around the world).

NZ have a great front row with Samisoni Taukei'aho still to return, some very good young loose forwards, two very promising halfbacks in Roigard and Ratima.

There are a few issues across the line-up but Razor will probably push the boat out a little more next year. There's a few pieces of deadweight that probably need to be moved on but already Cane and Perenara will be gone next year, Reece has probably played his last game in black, and there are a few more players who will be under a lot of pressure. It bodes well for the future, even if they didn't always get the biscuits this year.

Bolded bit - agree with this a lot but I am not sure that we are playing to this area of strength. We are still trying to play the game like we have the world's best midfield and back 3, and a relatively weak but mobile pack, which we clearly do not.

If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:

We win that game with Dmac starting, would have been up by 30 first half when we had the momentum. Fukn dumb selections cost us the game.

And then we take off Roigard 50th min for some dumb reason.

The way that first half played out I agree, the way DMac plays we would have made a lot more of our possession

What was evident today is that our game plan and ability to score points when on top depends heavily on the quickness of DMac's pass.

@Machpants said in All Blacks v France:

Poor by lakai don't go over the ruck

Except the French man who stole it was offside.

@Bones said in England vs Springboks:

@W32 said in England vs Springboks:

“We’re a very clever rugby team” George.

I think they are. This is a team of individuals trying their best to work together and doing a bloody good job - all in spite of the coaching. They were in the running to beat everyone this season despite being given no direction.

They might be clever enough to get into positions to score points and even win, but once in that position their decision making - collectively and individually - is just appalling.

@Victor-Meldrew said in England vs Springboks:

@sparky said in England vs Springboks:

@W32 Nah, Maro Itoje.

Made George Bridge look like Cheslin Kolbe today.

He made Reuben O'Neill look like John Eales.

@Machpants said in England vs Springboks:

@sparky said in England vs Springboks:

@W32 Nah, Maro Itoje.

He'll get rated 8 in the English press

"Itoje stood alone, a gladiator in the arena, valiantly - and single-handedly - fighting the hordes of south africa's lions..." - Stephen Jones, tomorrow, in whatever shitty rag he writes for these days.

@Bones said in England vs Springboks:

@junior said in England vs Springboks:

@game_film said in England vs Springboks:

Just don’t think England have the cattle. Dan Cole in 2024. Henry Slade in 2024. Not got the dudes.

You can carry those guys and ask them to do a job so long as the coaching is good and the other 13 players on the pitch engage their brains.

They are! They're trying to figure out what to do to get some shape because their coaching is terrible.

If that's them engaging their brains, it doesn't say much about the English "public" school system.

@game_film said in England vs Springboks:

Just don’t think England have the cattle. Dan Cole in 2024. Henry Slade in 2024. Not got the dudes.

You can carry those guys and ask them to do a job so long as the coaching is good and the other 13 players on the pitch engage their brains.

The English halfbacks making Finlay Christie look like the redheaded lovechild of Trapper and Joost VdV here.

The Boks would really be doing themselves and the rest of world rugby a massive favour if they lost this match and Borthwick kept his job.

@MajorRage said in England vs Springboks:

I’ve moved my position on itoje.

From over rated, to shit. He’s been awful. Rag dolled and ineffective.

A loud mouth with long arms that means he occasionally wins opposition pinouts and ruck ball.

Lots of white guilt in his general rating as a player.

OK, so they changed the rules at halftime and the new "access" law is now in place.

England would be doing a lot better with a halfback who could pass.

@junior said in England vs Springboks:

@sparky said in England vs Springboks:

No try. A bit of a hometown decision if you ask me.

Forward out the hands unfortunately - could and should have thrown it flat out of the hands and would have ended up in the same place,

Nevertheless, England barely hanging on.

@sparky said in England vs Springboks:

No try. A bit of a hometown decision if you ask me.

Forward out the hands unfortunately - could and should have thrown it flat out of the hands and would have ended up in the same place,