The Silver Fern

It's got to be someone for Sotutu love, surely? It's a rare AB thread that doesn't eventually work its way round to how he was "shafted".

I've gone for the draw. Not because I think it will be a draw, but because I think it will be mighty close.

We have started to look like we have sorted out some of our defensive issues, but we don't know how to score against similarly tight defences. So a close one either way.

I'm a lot happier now DMc is starting. I would have gone Ireland otherwise.

@kpkanz said in NZ Sevens 2024-25:

I'm really hoping Mathis isnt spending the next 8 months playing sevens instead of a full season of super rugby.

But would he get a full season of super rugby? He's not a starter over Jacobson, Finau and Sititi. If injuries strike he may get a few games.

Full time playing and training with the Sevens would be at least as good, provided he plays.

@canefan said in NZ First Five Crisis:

@Chester-Draws said in NZ First Five Crisis:

@frugby said in NZ First Five Crisis:

RE-OPENS THREAD

I can't believe I'm saying this but Plummer just has to have a crack. DMac is not the one.

If Plummer, at 26, is "the one", I'll eat my hat. I'm not unhappy that Plummer is in the squad, because he would be the next best, but that's it. There's no upward path from where he is now. We've all seen him play, and it's solid.

Every good first-five (or halfback for that matter) gets to their peak young. Usually very young. I remember watching Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden and DMc all standing out at age 21.

So when we get a decent replacement for DMc, it will be some tyro, barely out of the Under 20s. Like all the other decent first-fives (and halfbacks) we've had. Mo'unga took a long time to crack the ABs, relatively, and he was in the squad at 23.

The idea that we are going to spend a couple of years displacing DMc so a guy who is never going to be any better than him can get game time is risible.

The guy Plummer reminds me of is Stephen Donald. Who looked really good at SR level, but also took a long time to get international duty, because that was his level -- and really only played when multiple injuries struck.

You may be right about Plummer. But wouldn't you take the chance just in case he can be good, and start him for a half in a dead rubber vs Aussie on Saturday?

I don't think this is a dead rubber at all. The ABs need to fix their end of game issues, and they can only do that by taking games seriously. Aussie also desperately need a win, so will go in all fired up.

I've no issues if Plummer starts in a minor game on the end of year tour. We can't leave him on ice forever.

But the idea that he has any chance of being substantially better than DMc is rather wishful thinking.

@frugby said in NZ First Five Crisis:

RE-OPENS THREAD

I can't believe I'm saying this but Plummer just has to have a crack. DMac is not the one.

If Plummer, at 26, is "the one", I'll eat my hat. I'm not unhappy that Plummer is in the squad, because he would be the next best, but that's it. There's no upward path from where he is now. We've all seen him play, and it's solid.

Every good first-five (or halfback for that matter) gets to their peak young. Usually very young. I remember watching Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden and DMc all standing out at age 21.

So when we get a decent replacement for DMc, it will be some tyro, barely out of the Under 20s. Like all the other decent first-fives (and halfbacks) we've had. Mo'unga took a long time to crack the ABs, relatively, and he was in the squad at 23.

The idea that we are going to spend a couple of years displacing DMc so a guy who is never going to be close to as good as him can get game time is risible.

The guy Plummer reminds me of is Stephen Donald. Who looked really good at SR level, but also took a long time to get international duty, because that was his level -- and really only played when multiple injuries struck.

@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:

@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:

This AB pack is starting to remind me of 99-01 AB era packs

Undersized try hards.

That were superior to the SA forwards for the majority of the first game.

ABs were also bigger.

We are not a small side, regardless of how strongly that myth is embedded.

It is an odd climb, because the really steep bits are mixed with some very gentle parts. Downhill even. The 24% was only a tiny bit and the average, even for the last three km, was a lot lower..

The first guys over the line looked absolutely blown and made it look totally brutal. When Roglic went over he didn't look anything like that though.

What is more bizarre is that the Vuelta was won in exactly this fashion last year on stage six.

Roglic must be a very slow learner.

@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:

Based on actual recent performances then SA should go 2-0

I must be imagining that they lost to Ireland then. At home.

They will be a challenge, for sure, but their current record isn't actually that much better than ours.

@junior said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

I remember when James O'Connor first made the Wallabies, I thought to myself that a kid like that would never make it in NZ rugby - not big enough, not powerful enough.

Only a few short years later and we had both D Mac and R Mounga as central cogs in our team and we are looking more and more like the Wallabies teams that O'Connor played in.

It's not just us though, is it. How many large first-fives are there out there at the moment after Handre Pollard?

Great players don't generally make good coaches. Is there any reason, as opposed to "feels", that you think that they will make a difference mentoring?

I know mentoring is a big thing now, but I've never seen it work when imposed from outside, as opposed to occurring organically. I've seen it be a complete waste of time many times.

Mentoring doesn't make a player fitter, faster, more skillful or anything practical. It may affect a person's mentality, but the ABs already have people for that.

I was told by the Principal of St John's that it goes off final placement.

Given that it is a bit shit for HBHS to have to play another fixture, it will almost certainly stand. But they certainly need to sort it out.

@Bovidae said in 2024 School Rugby:

Hamilton BHS beat St Paul's 57-21 today in the Waikato Championship game for the Chiefs Top 4.

There is some dispute about that. Not the score, but that St Paul's is the CNI rep.

They were beaten in the semi-final by St John's, so finished 3rd/4th, not 1st/2nd. Hard to argue that you are the better team after losing a semi-final.

All Blacks match-day 23 (Test caps in brackets)

1. Tamaiti Williams (8)

2. Codie Taylor (88) (Vice Captain)

3. Tyrel Lomax (35)

4. Tupou Vaa’i (29)

5. Sam Darry (2)

6. Ethan Blackadder (12)

7. Dalton Papali’i (35)

8. Ardie Savea (85) (Captain)

9. TJ Perenara (83)

10. Damian McKenzie (51)

11. Caleb Clarke (21)

12. Jordie Barrett (61) (Vice Captain)

13. Rieko Ioane (72)

14. Will Jordan (32)

15. Beauden Barrett (127)

16. Asafo Aumua (10)

17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi (60)

18. Fletcher Newell (17)

19. Josh Lord (5)

20. Sam Cane (95)

21. Cortez Ratima (3)

22. Anton Lienert-Brown (74)

23. Mark Tele’a (12)

Unavailable due to injury: Ethan de Groot (neck). Scott Barrett (finger surgery), Patrick Tuipulotu (calf), Stephen Perofeta (calf), Luke Jacobson (hamstring).

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

For Darry's try, which was basically McKenzie and Barrett breaking away, it's Blackadder right on Darry's shoulder as he scores. Massive props to Darry for being up there too by the way.

So what you're saying is that this tearaway loose forward with a big motor was beaten to the punch by a to date run of the mill lock known for doing the tight stuff and not exactly having pace? 😬

Thats exactly what im saying. And guess where our open side flanker was.

Standing on our own 22 with his hands on his hips.

Blackadder started from a deeper position than Papalii and Dalton didnt try a leg to get there.

Dalton top left, Darry with white head tape to the right. Blackadder just inside 22.

Watch the footage. Dalton just stops and puts hands on hips. Darry and Blackadder chase McKenzie's chip and chase, overtaking Perenara en route half way up the field. Darry looks fair quick for a lock in the footage. Well done to him.

Dalton top left with hands on hips while the rest of the Allblacks try and score a try. He is still ahead of Darry and Blackadder at this point.

This is so wrong it isn't funny. Like really, really stupid.

The moment DMc kicked that ball Papali'i was offside. If he went further upfield he would simply have to turn around and move backwards, thereby cancelling any movement upfield.

Blackadder is strongly advantaged by being behind DMc, which is why he too waited until he was almost level.

Papali'i did exactly the right thing, which was to conserve energy in a situation where he could be of no use.

If Darry chased the kick from ahead of the kicker, then he was offside and it was a stupid play by him.

Tauranga BC beat Hamilton BHS by 37 - 0 which is a bit of a hiding by HBHS's standards.

St John's Hamilton beat St Paul's Collegiate 31 - 24, to reverse the previous week.

They play Fielding in the CNI final after they dispatched Lindisfarne 31 - 5.

Other results here: https://nextgenxv.com/2024/08/12/new-zealand-schools-rugby-results-tables-12-august-2024/#

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

has Telea been THAT bad? doesn't feel that long ago he was the second coming, hopefully just needs a push in the right direction

Two tries let in to being out of position/out-jumped from cross-kicks in a single game is a major issue.

It really doesn't matter how good the rest of your game is, if there is a massive weakness that others can exploit quite so dramatically then you aren't going to stay in black.

It's not like the alternatives are that much worse attacking either.

@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:

Basically, just pick as many Crusaders and Chiefs as possible.

Picking DMc hopefully won't trigger anyone. Picking Jordan on the wing likely won't either.

I'm not suggesting Havili would be a good choice for 2nd-5. We are picking a trigger team, after all. However he did at least look great sometimes.

Meanwhile the moment Beauden stopped playing #10 our play improved significantly against all teams. Him moving back would be hugely triggering for me. It's just my opinion, but I never want to see him play #10 in black except in extreme emergencies.

I think for loose forwards:

6 : Papali'i
7 : Cane
8 : Blackadder