The Silver Fern

@Dodge

Illegal for sure, no wrap and leading with the shoulder. On that alone it would warrant a yellow IMO. The damage to Dupont was clearly accidental but the question is, would that have happened if the entry into the ruck had been legal - ie would the act of wrapping have resulted in a different outcome? That’s a difficult one to rule on.

@Machpants

We need more than wins. We need statement wins that show some progression, some structure and ideally some ambition, but I’d take the first two for now.

Edit: Just seen some stats from the Scotland game: average 2.7 carries before kicking. Kicj=ked away 69% of our possession.

Given those stats I think we did really well to manage the one (dubious) try.

So after saying the team would be announced on Friday it is released on Friday. This is not the only mild surprise.

England team to face the Azzuri at Twickenham

England: Daly; Freeman, Lawrence, Dingwall, Sleightholme; F Smith, Mitchell; Genge, George, Stuart, Itoje, Chessum, T Curry, Earl, Willis
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Baxter, Heyes, Hill, Cunningham-South, B Curry, Van Poortvliet, M Smith

So Smith M sent to ride the pine, presumably because he is no great shakes under the high ball (quelle surprise) and Daly, fucking Daly gets the nod. I have been an admirer of Daly in the past and actually felt he was used poorly by England in being shunted around in different positions when he was actually a bloody good outside centre, but his best days are way behind him. To me this is an indication that we are not going to play ball in hand very much (quelle surprise encore). The only other non-surprise is JVP coming on to the bench on the back of one good game for England A. Ought to be something of a surprise as he's been dogshit for England for a while but then again, we know he is a favourite of Borthers from his Leicester days. However the biggest change is Dingwall in at 12 for Slade. I don't know enough about Dingwall to comment on his suitability but to me it seems that Slade is being made the scapegoat for a porous midfield defence. Personally I'd have got rid of El Abd and his in between system first but there you go.

Italy at home should be the opportunity to test one or two younger, up and coming guys off the bench, Langdon/Dan at hooker and Opoku-Fordjur stand out as opportunities missed. But then again. No surprise.

England should win this even though Italy are not the pushovers as before, but it is Twickenham and I think we will have enough to get us over the line in a boring kick-fest of a game.

@Dodge

Sums up my view completely, just a complete hotch-potch of selections and tactics. If the plan is to box kick all bloody day, then pick a 9 that can execute it well but if you pick two running 9s then why play kick the leather off the ball for most of the match? And as you say if you are going to kick then
A. Kick well.
B. Chase well
C. Do not kick to big top class dangerous runners like VDM and Kinghorn with two thirds of your back three being midgets.

It's not fucking rocket science, everyone and I do mean EVERYONE can see the issues but not Borthwick and his team. How blind or deluded do you have to be?

@MN5

He shagged his England team mate’s wife.. he also posed for a post match victory pic when he wasn’t even in the match day squad. Basically he is known as a grade A fluffybunny.

@MiketheSnow

Yeah, I’d agree with that. Looking at the two games yesterday I am a lot more worried about our trip to Cardiff. A point though is that the much lauded strength in depth of Irish rugby is not quite as strong or deep as thought. The A listers on the bench saved it for them really.

What that Welsh performance did highlight though was how poor the selections and tactics were under Gatland mk2. So strange to me that the previous criticism was that he held on to too many of the old guard for too long and then this time around he just picked kids - and out of position kids at that.

@Bones said in 6N 2025 England V Scotland:

I really hope England see that as progress.

Sadly that is quite possible

@Bones

You’d have to explain that one future-boy, I’m not that down with the kids

Hmmm. A bit early to bring on your only outside back.

Scotland looking far more lively so far. England looking lethargic and a bit clueless

@pooler-fan

Yep. Wainwright a better 6 than Morgan and Morgan a better 7 than Reffel. Seems muddled thinking to me.

@African-Monkey said in 6N 2025 Wales vs Ireland:

Is that former Northland prop WillGriff John?

And also, why is Aaron Wainwright not starting?

Beats me. He’s been one of the very few positives for Wales. Consistently so.

@MiketheSnow said in NH International Rugby:

@sparky said in NH International Rugby:

Ireland ain't even fielding their top side against Wales. Ouch.

Let’s hope they come unstuck as others have in the past

Nah. That’s usually England 😟

@sparky

Couldn’t agree more, save the last sentence.

That can fuck right off.

England squad to face Scotland

Starting XV: M Smith; Freeman, Lawrence, Slade, Sleightholme; F Smith, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Stuart, Itoje (capt), Chessum, T Curry, Earl, Willis.

Replacements: George, Baxter, Heyes, Martin, Cunningham-South, B Curry, Randall, Daly.

Pretty much as expected and to be fair why change a winning team too much. The one change made has merit as Chessum (in for Martin) had a great game when he came on and the line improved measurably, though Jamie George may have had a say in that.

I'm not that keen on a 6-2 split on the bench, unless of course the opposition pack warrants it and would like to have seen another speedster available. As it stands if Sleightholme gets crocked we are seriously one paced.

I still feel though that we will sneak a win as I think we will have the most possession - providing of course we don't kick it aimlessly away all afternoon.

Last paragraph more in hope than based on anything tangible.

@MajorRage

Yeah. Fairly easy to respect the guy, a bit more difficult to like him. We all have those players though that we love because they are our shithouses, knowing that if they played for another team we'd hate them.

@Machpants

The payout thing does not surprise me. He did not do it for the money. Yes he was paid but ffs what would anyone expect?

Class gesture. Eddie Jones please take note.

@Billy-Tell

Yeah, I’d agree. Gatlandball worked well (though a difficult watch often), but only up to a point. It usually got found out with the better sides. However, his record for Wales in his first stint brought some impressive silverware and importantly a great deal of pleasure to a lot of very passionate supporters.

@KiwiMurph

Yeah, he’s gone alright. I wonder how his legacy will be viewed? You cannot argue with the raw data; 6N titles, 3 GS and 2 RWC semi-finals first time round. A winless calendar year in 2024, 1 x 6N win in 2023, wooden spoon in 2024, record losing streak and lowest ranking ever in the second stint.

The Gatland fanbois will point to a lack of cattle in recent years and the Gatland detractors will point to a host of greats available previously and a failure to succession plan.

I’m more in the latter camp and feel he was blessed with some generational talent in earlier years and maybe even under-delivered given that talent. I certainly feel he did not get the best out of the talent pool he had on his Lions excursions.

@Machpants said in 2025 6Ns:

@MN5 said in 2025 6Ns:

Obviously Duhans Mum is awesome at making memes

Fuck me I've seen some bullshit, but that takes the cake

Mate, it’s a dig at diversity