Black Caps tour of India
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The only thing that really sticks in that article. Surely not even the current Black Caps brains trust would ever bat Southee at #8 in a Test line-up ever again...
Can't see his bowling being remotely threatening to guys who train with the Indian attack, either.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
I’d vote for the three seamers personally. Big workload for Phillips and Patel but Mitchell and Ravindra can offer support too.
Also they’re underrating Henrys batting a bit, he’s proven pretty capable. Averages 22 to Santners 24 and he has proven he can actually take wickets.
The article talks up Ashwin and Jadeja, it’s unfair that a single country has BOTH of them playing at the same time.
100% agree
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of India:
The only thing that really sticks in that article. Surely not even the current Black Caps brains trust would ever bat Southee at #8 in a Test line-up ever again...
Can't see his bowling being remotely threatening to guys who train with the Indian attack, either.
The Indian batting line up might not be quite as strong as the days of Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman ( although there isn’t too much in it ) but that is a generational bowling attack.
Ashwin and Jadeja are just extraordinary cricketers ( ESPECIALLY at home ) and Bumrah is a very rare individual indeed, a genuinely world class Indian fast bowler ( with all due respect to Kapil Dev, Zaheer Khan, Javagal Srinath etc ) Siraj is more than handy too.
The Black Caps will be doing very well just to avoid complete and utter embarrassment I reckon. The decline from 2021 is well and truly in motion unfortunately
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Agreed. My main hope is to avoid a batting catastrophe like the Sri Lankan series, and to at least be worthy of a three Test series.
That decline from 2021 could make this the last series for a couple of that era - Southee, Conway especially - unless a dramatic return to form & technique is found.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
I’d vote for the three seamers personally. Big workload for Phillips and Patel but Mitchell and Ravindra can offer support too.
Also they’re underrating Henrys batting a bit, he’s proven pretty capable. Averages 22 to Santners 24 and he has proven he can actually take wickets.
The article talks up Ashwin and Jadeja, it’s unfair that a single country has BOTH of them playing at the same time.
I don't know why the author is considering batting Timmy at 8. In my view he shouldn't be in any equations - but, if he played he'd be 10 or 11.
My choice is between:
Henry, Ajaz, Sears, O'Rourke
OR
Santner, Henry, Ajaz, O'Rourke
I'd go with the Sears option. A bit less batting, but I doubt Satnav will take wickets except by endless persistence - i.e. if I bowled enough balls in test cricket I'd eventually get one.
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jesus, imagine having a whole article written about how you suck.
How bad are Santner’s numbers in Tests? Way worse than you think | New Zealand tour of India, 2024
All the numbers point towards the left-arm spinner being a liability for the Kiwis in red-ball cricket
Edit: I don't rate Santner in Tests, but I don't think negative articles like this are a good idea. Relaly did you have to Cricket.com?
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what is wrong with it. It's effectively all data driven, not "lol you're shit give it away champ"
the never ending whinge on here is that sports journalism no longer puts out interesting and factual analysis, and yet when someone does, they shouldn't because it's negative.
That article added data to the "vibe and mabo" we all have the Santner is a waste of space with the ball in tedt cricket. The last part about the 4-wicket hauls is an astounding stat.
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I feel a bit for Santner, the only reason his numbers are that bad is because we have persisted playing him in a format that he is clearly not suited to at the top level. He's a Chris Harris type player, very effective in the shorter formats but is never going to run through teams with the ball, and his batting technique doesn't lend itself to long stays at the crease.
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@nzzp said in Black Caps tour of India:
jesus, imagine having a whole article written about how you suck.
All the numbers point towards the left-arm spinner being a liability for the Kiwis in red-ball cricket
Edit: I don't rate Santner in Tests, but I don't think negative articles like this are a good idea. Relaly did you have to Cricket.com?
I think it's a great article and apart from doing Santner's confidence some harm (if he has any), it raises questions about the competence of NZ Cricket. Surely these dullards have access to the same facts? Why aren't they adopting a data driven team selection for each format?
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Find it intriguing that this is even a real debate... Southee and Santner ineffective, IMO the bowlers pick themselves. Patel should bat 8 simply because he has the best defence, and is more likely to hang around with a proper batter. Henry to follow with the ability to swing for the fences.
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Seriously the worst bowling strike rate in Asia since 2010 and its not like it is based off one over. For me this is administration who are looking for an allrounder rather than an extra specialist. Time to bite the bullet and pick one
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@frugby said in Black Caps tour of India:
Find it intriguing that this is even a real debate... Southee and Santner ineffective, IMO the bowlers pick themselves. Patel should bat 8 simply because he has the best defence, and is more likely to hang around with a proper batter. Henry to follow with the ability to swing for the fences.
Not sure I'd go with that - even though I see what you're getting at.
I don't mind if Ajaz runs out of partners batting at 9, because he's not going to hurt the opposition too much - but, I don't want Matt to.
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@bayimports said in Black Caps tour of India:
Seriously the worst bowling strike rate in Asia since 2010 and its not like it is based off one over. For me this is administration who are looking for an allrounder rather than an extra specialist. Time to bite the bullet and pick one
It’s also not like Santners batting is consistently compelling like Phillips who you suspect is close to a big hundred sooner rather than later.
Also his part time bowling is much better than Santners full time efforts
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@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@bayimports said in Black Caps tour of India:
Seriously the worst bowling strike rate in Asia since 2010 and its not like it is based off one over. For me this is administration who are looking for an allrounder rather than an extra specialist. Time to bite the bullet and pick one
It’s also not like Santners batting is consistently compelling like Phillips who you suspect is close to a big hundred sooner rather than later.
Also his part time bowling is much better than Santners full time efforts
If you went on Phillips' current average he'd probably be our best ever spinner. But, I suspect he's had a bit more luck than Satnav - and many others. Wouldn't want either of them bowling for my life.
But Phillips is a right arm offspinner - Santner is left arm orthodox and we have Ajaz and Rachin who also bowl that, so it's hard to see the point in a third guy (though he's doubtless better than Rachin).
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@bayimports said in Black Caps tour of India:
Seriously the worst bowling strike rate in Asia since 2010 and its not like it is based off one over. For me this is administration who are looking for an allrounder rather than an extra specialist. Time to bite the bullet and pick one
It’s also not like Santners batting is consistently compelling like Phillips who you suspect is close to a big hundred sooner rather than later.
Also his part time bowling is much better than Santners full time efforts
If you went on Phillips' current average he'd probably be our best ever spinner. But, I suspect he's had a bit more luck than Satnav - and many others. Wouldn't want either of them bowling for my life.
But Phillips is a right arm offspinner - Santner is left arm orthodox and we have Ajaz and Rachin who also bowl that, so it's hard to see the point in a third guy (though he's doubtless better than Rachin).
Always good to have the right arm off spinner to offer some variation from the other 2, though it is much easier to play Phillips for the right handlers than the ball spinning away which is much harder to play.
Problem is the spinners we have do not turn it a long way not much revs on the ball they are inclined to lose their line and length far to regularly to be a major threat. -
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@bayimports said in Black Caps tour of India:
Seriously the worst bowling strike rate in Asia since 2010 and its not like it is based off one over. For me this is administration who are looking for an allrounder rather than an extra specialist. Time to bite the bullet and pick one
It’s also not like Santners batting is consistently compelling like Phillips who you suspect is close to a big hundred sooner rather than later.
Also his part time bowling is much better than Santners full time efforts
If you went on Phillips' current average he'd probably be our best ever spinner. But, I suspect he's had a bit more luck than Satnav - and many others. Wouldn't want either of them bowling for my life.
But Phillips is a right arm offspinner - Santner is left arm orthodox and we have Ajaz and Rachin who also bowl that, so it's hard to see the point in a third guy (though he's doubtless better than Rachin).
Oh for sure, Phillips is a confidence player but he’s still a batsman first.
Anyway, good news for Southee…..
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@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@bayimports said in Black Caps tour of India:
Seriously the worst bowling strike rate in Asia since 2010 and its not like it is based off one over. For me this is administration who are looking for an allrounder rather than an extra specialist. Time to bite the bullet and pick one
It’s also not like Santners batting is consistently compelling like Phillips who you suspect is close to a big hundred sooner rather than later.
Also his part time bowling is much better than Santners full time efforts
If you went on Phillips' current average he'd probably be our best ever spinner. But, I suspect he's had a bit more luck than Satnav - and many others. Wouldn't want either of them bowling for my life.
But Phillips is a right arm offspinner - Santner is left arm orthodox and we have Ajaz and Rachin who also bowl that, so it's hard to see the point in a third guy (though he's doubtless better than Rachin).
FFS!
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris Yeah- I'd pick Ajaz and Phillips - and then we've got guys who can take it both ways - challenge left handers and right handers.
And then I'd ask, what does Santner add?
Yep then you can play the 3 quicks for variation ,although with Sears now injured one seamer is not going to add fuck all.
Southee will just bowl slow meds up and down and will be batting practice.
Sears would have added some pace along with the bounce of O’Rourke and Henry who is quick enough with what he can add with line and length.
