All Blacks vs Wallabies 2
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.
Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be usedAnd that’s just the tip of my head.
Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.
I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.
I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure why we need Jacobson on the bench - it would seem a good test to get Finau on to hit some bodies. Clearly, he’s on the outer until he moves south.
Get off it. Finau was our starting blindside at the start of the year and was dropped because he was poor - universally agreed by everyone. You'll never guess where Jacobson comes from either...
??
I'm from TA, I grew up with the Jacobsons (his cousins - I don't know him).
So the Chiefs... just like Finau?
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
We do have the cattle, I don't believe for a second that we don't.
Agree. Look at Sititi in 6, crazy idea but fook mi it paid off against both the Boks and Oz. Just need to select and introduce more young/form players - not stick with the old and past it.
I think the starting side has largely gone pretty well. Other than that flukey game against Argentina, we have controlled the first 60 minutes of all the Rugby Championship tests. Bench is where we can really improve, but I'm not really sure what the options are that make us better?
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure why we need Jacobson on the bench - it would seem a good test to get Finau on to hit some bodies. Clearly, he’s on the outer until he moves south.
Get off it. Finau was our starting blindside at the start of the year and was dropped because he was poor - universally agreed by everyone. You'll never guess where Jacobson comes from either...
??
I'm from TA, I grew up with the Jacobsons (his cousins - I don't know him).
So the Chiefs... just like Finau?
Still not registering?
See, I don't have a Chiefs bias, I'd like to see the best players out there.
I for example, wouldn't have even selected Cane in the squad, despite my undying love for him.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
If the bench hadn't shat the bed we'd probably have won both tests in South Africa and would have eased home last week. I don't see why people want sweeping changes to the starting XV.
But the bench has shat the bed for 5 tests in a row.
People want changes to the bench - without ripping players who are effective in the starting XV (i.e. Ratima).
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby that just means it’s more important to drop players not playing well.
Was a strength of AB teams in the past.
This is my point though. Can't hold players to standards they aren't capable of.
I think the majority believe that the starting XV last week was pretty much the best one the ABs could field, barring right wing and the loose trio.The players aren't playing badly, they just aren't Richie McCaw and Dan Carter.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
If the bench hadn't shat the bed we'd probably have won both tests in South Africa and would have eased home last week. I don't see why people want sweeping changes to the starting XV.
But the bench has shat the bed for 5 tests in a row.
People want changes to the bench - without ripping players who are effective in the starting XV (i.e. Ratima).
Ratima is on the bench for sentimental reasons. Perenara's last home test in what is a dead rubber.
They have no other options in the front row, and they have brought in Tuipulotu. Could argue for Finau, but he has been shit this year.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby that just means it’s more important to drop players not playing well.
Was a strength of AB teams in the past.
This is my point though. Can't hold players to standards they aren't capable of.
I think the majority believe that the starting XV last week was pretty much the best one the ABs could field, barring right wing and the loose trio.lets say we agree....and yet we've seen changes at 9 and 10....and kept the lose trio....does that make sense?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby that just means it’s more important to drop players not playing well.
Was a strength of AB teams in the past.
This is my point though. Can't hold players to standards they aren't capable of.
I think the majority believe that the starting XV last week was pretty much the best one the ABs could field, barring right wing and the loose trio.lets say we agree....and yet we've seen changes at 9 and 10....and kept the lose trio....does that make sense?
Perenara and Cane are starting for sentimental reasons IMO, so hard to really decipher that this week.
Barrett in for McKenzie... that's a real polarising selection I'll give you that.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.
Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be usedAnd that’s just the tip of my head.
Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.
I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.
I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.
Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
They have no other options in the front row
Yes they do. They have Bell. Supposedly he's highly rated. He looked good in limited minutes vs Fiji. Aumua has been disappointing. Where is he?
I'd play Bell, no arguments from me, but I'm guessing (like Hotham) they're viewed more so as options for the future. Bell particularly is probably still a couple of years away from being a proper option at test level and is only there because Taukei'aho is injured.
Aumua in theory has the goods, so I can see why they are persisting with him.
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@frugby then honestly thats another reason to get on razors back, be sentimental when you have the luxury of winning....fuck it off when trying to steady the ship...id be fucking embarrassed if if was TJP just starting because its my last game at home
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.
Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be usedAnd that’s just the tip of my head.
Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.
I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.
I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.
Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.
I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby then honestly thats another reason to get on razors back, be sentimental when you have the luxury of winning....fuck it off when trying to steady the ship...id be fucking embarrassed if if was TJP just starting because its my last game at home
Professional sport is way more sentimental than it should be... though in fairness, it is easy to forget that these are all people who have personal relationships just like we do at the grassroots level.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
They have no other options in the front row
Yes they do. They have Bell. Supposedly he's highly rated. He looked good in limited minutes vs Fiji. Aumua has been disappointing. Where is he?
I'd play Bell, no arguments from me, but I'm guessing (like Hotham) they're viewed more so as options for the future. Bell particularly is probably still a couple of years away from being a proper option at test level and is only there because Taukei'aho is injured.
Aumua in theory has the goods, so I can see why they are persisting with him.
Then in the meantime you have no selection pressure on Aumua (or Taylor) and if either were injured Bell would be forced to play anyway.
If Bell is good enough to play vs Fiji off the bench he's good enough to play off the bench in a dead rubber Bledisloe.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
They have no other options in the front row
Yes they do. They have Bell. Supposedly he's highly rated. He looked good in limited minutes vs Fiji. Aumua has been disappointing. Where is he?
I'd play Bell, no arguments from me, but I'm guessing (like Hotham) they're viewed more so as options for the future. Bell particularly is probably still a couple of years away from being a proper option at test level and is only there because Taukei'aho is injured.
Aumua in theory has the goods, so I can see why they are persisting with him.
Then in the meantime you have no selection pressure on Aumua (or Taylor) and if either were injured Bell would be forced to play anyway.
If Bell is good enough to play vs Fiji off the bench he's good enough to play off the bench in a dead rubber Bledisloe.
And if he isn't good enough (now), he should be a training member of the squad and they should bring in someone who can put selection pressure on Aumua.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.
The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.
personally i think we dont actually know some of the names not picked wont fix things...because they dont get a run...and even if they do they get dropped even if they play well
This is a common trap fans fall into. The answer is always obviously the guy not playing... the coaches watch them in training, have all the stats, watch all the games. Maybe, just maybe there is a reason why these guys aren't playing?
We know the reason. Otherwise explain how TJ gets to start, how Ardie gets to start, how Cane gets to start, how Beaudy gets to start at 10, how Havili makes the 23, etc.
The two best 8s in Super Rugby this year. Neither gets to play 8 for the All Blacks despite Ardie's form. One isn't even in the squad.
But it's all "training ground metrics". Fuck off.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
This is a common trap fans fall into. The answer is always obviously the guy not playing... the coaches watch them in training, have all the stats, watch all the games. Maybe, just maybe there is a reason why these guys aren't playing?
Because the coaches lack imagination and vision?
Ratima and Darry were playing well, but brought in due to emergency, and actually played well, what a surprise!I'll give them Sititi and Tosi.
But their knee-jerk reaction seems to be older Crusaders, and two especially that seem injury-prone and positionally challenged.It's not just a Crusader thing, I'd prefer Plummer over BB at 10 and I am reluctant to favour BB at 15, there should be other newer options.
