How good are the Boks?
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Bok fans on here…do you think the Boks are 15-20 points better than the current ABs? Boks didn’t play perfectly, but I don’t think they were allowed to. They had to earn their wins.
I ask because there are a lot of Bok posters on X saying they think the Boks would have walloped the ABs in both games if passes had stuck. Is this the true Bok fan view, or just the view of the few?
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@stodders I think that's kinda the wrong question.
It is true that SA were pretty sloppy in both tests and have the potential to be 15 to 20 points better than they were in these games. But potential is a stupid metric.
This trend of making errors at bad times and tripping over themselves has been a constant this whole season, so I'd say the way we played is consistent with how good this team is, bit there is a lot of room to get better.
But what I would say it better over ten tests to win 7 or eight than win 5 with massive points difference. So I wouldn't say we are 20 points better than All Blacks, right now we are two or three games better over a hypothetical 10 match series.
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@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
Bok fans on here…do you think the Boks are 15-20 points better than the current ABs? Boks didn’t play perfectly, but I don’t think they were allowed to. They had to earn their wins.
I ask because there are a lot of Bok posters on X saying they think the Boks would have walloped the ABs in both games if passes had stuck. Is this the true Bok fan view, or just the view of the few?
Stupid thing for X fans to say. The games have been close. woulda coulda shoulda
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@W32 said in How good are the Boks?:
@teachmetherugby said in How good are the Boks?:
The springboks know how to build very well.
From their school systems to their cultural story (they have a Hollywood movie based on it).
And so they have the greatest depth that is never ending , as far as the eye can see. They got a dam movie based on their story.Unmatched. Greater than the haka if we are to compare . Invictus is mythological for all the people of the country . Uniting .
they may not be the most gifted . But I can assure you that on average, their packs have a deeper bond player to player. They always deliver and peak properly for world cups .
They are known for their set plays and they always have a very very reliable kicker . Points are always in their hand.
I do honestly believe that they are the best rugby nation . Population 60million .
Was this AI generated?
Yes, artificially inflammatory.
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So yeah . What you reckon about my commentary on greatest rugby nation .
p.s I totally adored the Carter McCaw Conrad smith era so pipe down yeah.
Let’s talk. Invictus baby. What you reckon a movie like that does to the grassroots of a country ? Aye.
Talk to me
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@SidBarret said in How good are the Boks?:
In think we're in a pretty good space. The team that played on saturday was missing the following guys from the strongest 23 -
Kitshoff
Snyman
De Jager
Mostert
De Klerk
Arendse
WillemseI also think that the last couple of games have shown that some veterans are being played out of the by younger guys coming in rather old guys falling off (Mngomozulu v Pollard, Fassi v Le Roux and Louw vs Wiese).
We have a kind schedule until the next two games in New Zealand in 2025. Frankly it would be a failure not to dominate for the next 18months or so.
But the big elephant in the room is how we deal with an aging pack. Who do we keep in the side, who gets shifted out and who comes in. We have gotten used to having 10 to 15 world class tight forwards to pick from - that is not normal and you don't think we can just presume the next Etsebeth, Marx, Malherbe, whoever is just going to come out of nowhere.
Thar said - there are some truly great players coming through in positions 7 (our seven) to 15.
The fact someone as good as Andre Esterhuizen can’t get a game speaks volumes.
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rugby attack has evolved. Points are through set plays now as opposed to line breaks and backline .
SA have a style that don’t need to adapt much. Instead they are now experimenting with their attack.
All blacks haven’t adapted their style of play. Teams defend better now with lateral play
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It is official. Current Boks are the greatest (according to this Englishman):
Opinion: I’m a Pom and even I am beginning to like the Springboks
Planet Rugby's James While confesses his love for the 2024 Springboks side and how they are evolving under the genius of head coach Rassie Erasmus.
I guess this is how the Welsh players from the 70s felt when ppl started forgetting about how their many generational talents changed the game.
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I think down here in SAFFA land - bar being pretty happy - most of us are also pretty realistic and Rassie said as much post match. ABs have done far greater things in our history - we're still far behind on balance. And we are also fully aware that we've won a lot of tight games that could have gone the other way - then we'd have different conversations.
Let's see where this team ends up - and then we can really shout. For now, we celebrate the status quo with hope to see a full 80 minute performance ... because we've not seen it, yet.
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Don’t think I have answered yet.
The Boks have their best squad ever with some all time greats in their side and can now be considered a generational team like their 2009 team, Eng 2003 and many AB sides.
Their potential is huge and I have said before that the influx of the black population into rugby will be as transformational as pasifika players in NZ in the 90’s.
I thought we did pretty well in the two tests against them but in order to get back on top we have to be pretty close to perfect in the AB squad with strategy/selections and player development in the test arena.
The Boks supporters should enjoy it as it’s great during these runs etc but as we know they are over without seeing it coming!
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@DaGrubster and they have Rassie. Love him or hate him, he is the patriarch of the Bok setup. He has his hand in everything that is good and deserves all the plaudits for reinvigorating them from their nadir in 2017.
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Taking a 30000 foot view, I think there are echos (both good and bad) with where NZ were around 2012.
The good-
Stability of coaching structure
A stability of season structure and decent finances.
An experienced core with good young talent coming in.The bad -
A slippage on the periphery- the sevens and u20 sides are behind where they were 5 years earlier.
Concerns around the age profile of certain position groups.The challenge for Rassie in the next 18 months is to set the boks up for 2026 and 2027 because some great players are going to age out of the side in that period and others will be breaking down doors and finding out which is which is going be very tough.
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@SidBarret said in How good are the Boks?:
Taking a 30000 foot view, I think there are echos (both good and bad) with where NZ were around 2012.
The good-
Stability of coaching structure
A stability of season structure and decent finances.
An experienced core with good young talent coming in.The bad -
A slippage on the periphery- the sevens and u20 sides are behind where they were 5 years earlier.
Concerns around the age profile of certain position groups.The challenge for Rassie in the next 18 months is to set the boks up for 2026 and 2027 because some great players are going to age out of the side in that period and others will be breaking down doors and finding out which is which is going be very tough.
You mention season structure but I would have thought that was one of your biggest problems as your guys are playing almost all year round.
Losing lots of leaders from 2019/23 will be very difficult as there are some greats of the game that will be too old for 2027.
Balancing when to retire them and how long to keep them is an age old problem and one which will be hard to get completely right and you don’t know what you’ve lost until it’s gone sometimes.
Either way, the Boks are in rude health. The trick is keeping yourself in that state!
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@nostrildamus said in How good are the Boks?:
@W32 said in How good are the Boks?:
@teachmetherugby said in How good are the Boks?:
The springboks know how to build very well.
From their school systems to their cultural story (they have a Hollywood movie based on it).
And so they have the greatest depth that is never ending , as far as the eye can see. They got a dam movie based on their story.Unmatched. Greater than the haka if we are to compare . Invictus is mythological for all the people of the country . Uniting .
they may not be the most gifted . But I can assure you that on average, their packs have a deeper bond player to player. They always deliver and peak properly for world cups .
They are known for their set plays and they always have a very very reliable kicker . Points are always in their hand.
I do honestly believe that they are the best rugby nation . Population 60million .
Was this AI generated?
Yes, artificially inflammatory.
Well the "I" definitely isn't "Intelligence".
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@W32 said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
Bok fans on here…do you think the Boks are 15-20 points better than the current ABs? Boks didn’t play perfectly, but I don’t think they were allowed to. They had to earn their wins.
I ask because there are a lot of Bok posters on X saying they think the Boks would have walloped the ABs in both games if passes had stuck. Is this the true Bok fan view, or just the view of the few?
Stupid thing for X fans to say. The games have been close. woulda coulda shoulda
TBH this is an outstanding South African side and I am surprised we got so close on both occasions. Probably strongest SA side I've seen.
Our subbings were poor and we screwed up our wing selections.
Super proud of Williams Lomax Vaai and Sititi.
Ratima/ Roigard combo is going to be potent.
We need to commit to Proctor and Love -
Oh we lacked leadership which aided SA
