NPC Crowds
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@mohikamo said in NPC Crowds:
And the pro clubs and leagues fucking hate it!
Constantly bickering with national unions; the players being the meat in the sandwich.
The clubs actually own the players contracts as well, totally different scenario to down here.
The national union can pull a player out of the domestic comp here with barely a murmur from the franchise.
And out of the NPC for the entire comp!
Lets see the national unions in Europe try something like that.
If they did try, there would be a break away league being organised within a week!Well I do agree the clubs in NH in many case don't like it, but they have to release their players more than the super clubs do, and same down here NPC is played during test season, and the coaches will tell you, it would be no use having players as they would be away training and plaing with ABs anyway, Would muck up teams too much. Understand your point mate, but no way is Europen club rugby one you should really use as an example, I don't think that is healthy for any sport, 2 many different people having control of players.
Just for me in no way lessens the enjoyment of the rugby. -
@mohikamo said in NPC Crowds:
Hmmm.
This is probably the debate in a nutshell.
We are not even sure whose player Aaron Smith was.
And the gen public dont know, and dont even care!
So much for rugby tribalism.As an outsider i always considered him a Manawatu player.
Well that debate is in almost every comp in world isn't it? Smith is rightly claimed by different areas, is that bad or good?
Just heard Cody Taylor on radio this morning, he a Canterbury.Crusaders' player, but still considers himelf (and Tosi who he talked about) as Levin boys. And Levin still claim him, that's good isn't it?
And that has been case as long as I have followed game when players moved provinces etc. F*** me the Jordie Barrett is a has played for Canterbury etc and now Canes, you will still see him standing on sidelines wating Naki play when he got time off. And try and tell anyone Barretts aren't Naki boys. -
Should it even exist anymore is prob the question?
Tough one, but if nobody is going is it generating revenue? What are the tv viewings like?
Outside the fern, I know nobody that watches. When I speak to ppl at home they know epl, they know f1, they know golf tournaments, they know nba and other US sports., they don' t know NPC.
Rugby is super + ABs.
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@MajorRage said in NPC Crowds:
Should it even exist anymore is prob the question?
Tough one, but if nobody is going is it generating revenue? What are the tv viewings like?
Outside the fern, I know nobody that watches. When I speak to ppl at home they know epl, they know f1, they know golf tournaments, they know nba and other US sports.
Rugby is super + ABs.
Putting it bluntly every year a bunch of NPC fans die and they aren't being replaced in the same numbers
The problems are deeper than that too. Look at the self selected group of people we have here.. obviously people here are bigger fans than the general population. Think of the people who are posting regularly, say at least once a week. Plenty of those people will post about how much they love the NPC, or prefer it to other levels etc etc. Now look at what they post about. Very little chat in NPC threads about upcoming games, current performances etc. Yet those posters are talking about the ABs and/or SR. In fact many of the NPC posts are just making a pithy comment about the current AB side or discussing next years SR selections
So when I see TSFers make comments about the NPC it is always worth comparing it to what they actually talk about. Revealed preferences vs stated preferences
It's in a death spiral. I'll repeat myself but both SR and NPC aren't good fits for the geographic spread of talent/fans/revenue. I'd prefer a single coherent comp. 14 teams is too many, 5 teams is too few
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@Duluth said in NPC Crowds:
It's in a death spiral. I'll repeat myself but both SR and NPC aren't good fits for the geographic spread of talent/fans/revenue. I'd prefer a single coherent comp. 14 teams is too many, 5 teams is too few
definitely agree
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@Duluth said in NPC Crowds:
I'd prefer a single coherent comp. 14 teams is too many, 5 teams is too few
How many pro players can we actually afford? Because 5 seems too many right now.
You have to deal with the jumble of
International
Super
NPC
Clubsand fit it into some sort of meaningful calendar, that doesn't burn out players. The top level goes from Feb (Super) to November (NH tour). It's nuts.
Now SA has gone, I'd be arguing for separating the pro and amateur game, have the NPC as a development comp, block out time for various games (NPC+club saturday/sunday afternoons primarily, Super Fri/Sat nights except where there are no games in NZ). Then you only have to worry about fitting Super around Internationals - and you can find ways of doing that. It's crazy that right now there are these gaps for high level sport with no games on at a weekend. It makes no sense to me.
You could even play NPC as curtain raisers to Super games - nothing prepares you for a good game of footy like a good game of footy
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@nzzp said in NPC Crowds:
@Duluth said in NPC Crowds:
I'd prefer a single coherent comp. 14 teams is too many, 5 teams is too few
How many pro players can we actually afford? Because 5 seems too many right now.
You have to deal with the jumble of
International
Super
NPC
Clubsand fit it into some sort of meaningful calendar, that doesn't burn out players. The top level goes from Feb (Super) to November (NH tour). It's nuts.
Now SA has gone, I'd be arguing for separating the pro and amateur game, have the NPC as a development comp, block out time for various games (NPC+club saturday/sunday afternoons primarily, Super Fri/Sat nights except where there are no games in NZ). Then you only have to worry about fitting Super around Internationals - and you can find ways of doing that. It's crazy that right now there are these gaps for high level sport with no games on at a weekend. It makes no sense to me.
You could even play NPC as curtain raisers to Super games - nothing prepares you for a good game of footy like a good game of footy
im afraid guys just arent going to commit to club and NPC if theyre both amateur and if they are they'll have to go back to tuesday/thursday night training because guys have to pay the bills...
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@Kiwiwomble said in NPC Crowds:
im afraid guys just arent going to commit to club and NPC if theyre both amateur and if they are they'll have to go back to tuesday/thursday night training because guys have to pay the bills...
Fine, call it 'semi pro'. But don't pretend it's anything but a feeder comp for 'proper' professionalism at Super level. RIght now it's a weird mishmash
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@nzzp said in NPC Crowds:
@Kiwiwomble said in NPC Crowds:
im afraid guys just arent going to commit to club and NPC if theyre both amateur and if they are they'll have to go back to tuesday/thursday night training because guys have to pay the bills...
Fine, call it 'semi pro'. But don't pretend it's anything but a feeder comp for 'proper' professionalism at Super level. RIght now it's a weird mishmash
isn;t it already semi pro? guys arent living purely on their NPC pay packet, and it aint working
if you read above, im not saying leave it as it is, i think what @Duluth says above is the only way, one combined comp with 8-10 teams...do one thing well rather than a couple of things hafl arsed
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@Kiwiwomble said in NPC Crowds:
@nzzp said in NPC Crowds:
@Kiwiwomble said in NPC Crowds:
im afraid guys just arent going to commit to club and NPC if theyre both amateur and if they are they'll have to go back to tuesday/thursday night training because guys have to pay the bills...
Fine, call it 'semi pro'. But don't pretend it's anything but a feeder comp for 'proper' professionalism at Super level. RIght now it's a weird mishmash
isn;t it already semi pro? guys arent living purely on their NPC pay packet, and it aint working
if you read above, im not saying leave it as it is, i think what @Duluth says above is the only way, one combined comp with 8-10 teams...do one thing well rather than a couple of things hafl arsed
Same those 8 teams versus Oz and PI would be a good balance, and a longer decent season. Club > (NZ expanded team number) SR> international
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@Machpants and the other unions can play the heartland as full amateur, hell maybe set up some sort of draft from the Heartland....you really want to make it but havent got a professional gig? go play a season for north otago and aim to be picked up next year
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@tubbyj as much as it pains me to suggest, may also be some amalgamations, an Otago and Southland Rugby Union (Southern Rugby Union?).....bit have had major financial difficulties in the last 10-15 years and have very small catchments
that would have to be cheaper to run that the Highlanders, Otago AND Southland....and with a longer single season we could give both Dunedin and Invercargill games
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@tubbyj player numbers would mean NH would have to be there, which is where, as much as it pains me to say, Northland would likely end up if we have some culling and amalgamations.
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Yeah I've got a foot in the Bush and now live in Northland, both of which would not be directly involved in the pro comp. But somethings are bigger than you. We can't support two comps like we are, so IMO we need just one. Whether you spilt franchises into more manageable chunks, or merge unions, I don't know. Not like Ta$man union has gone to shit since it merged
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@gt12 said in NPC Crowds:
However, I think Dan is right - it is easy to just stop things and turn on the Telly so its not just the monetary cost, there has to be a reason to get people out and Iām not sure if location alone will do it.
When I've seen this work well, it's because it's a social event in its own right.
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@antipodean yeah, would take a a cultural shift for a lot of people for the default on a sat/sun afternoon to go down and watch the rugby...results secondary...just going is the thing
Mrs Womble has come to a few VFL games....couldn't care less about the result (have to reminder her who we're cheering for)....standing/sitting in the sun on the grass with a beer...or going to the pub for dinner then nipping round the corner to north port oval with mates....thats why she goes
harder to get that vibe with these large concrete stadiums
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@taniwharugby said in NPC Crowds:
@tubbyj player numbers would mean NH would have to be there, which is where, as much as it pains me to say, Northland would likely end up if we have some culling and amalgamations.
One way to lessen the blow in a theoretical North Auckland team would be to split the games 50/50 between Albany & Whangarei. Okara has 5 games scheduled for this year. In a theoretical single longer comp there might be ~10 home games
