Crusaders 2025
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Lol I hope they do, James O'Connor is pretty average these days.
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@Chris Somewhat surprisingly, we probably should have signed Willie Havili back when we signed Kemara.
He's turned into a very good player - as good as anyone else has in the NPC and better than our Crusaders options IMO.
Not a fan of O'Çonnor - but, I guess I'm not surprised. There's no very obvious options to bring in short term as a bridge back to Richie.
Nearly 20 years ago there was an Australian guy called Lee Grant posted here - he had the young JOC marked down as the next Mark Ella. He might have been except he did some dickhead things.
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@Chris-B said in Crusaders 2025:
@Chris Somewhat surprisingly, we probably should have signed Willie Havili back when we signed Kemara.
He's turned into a very good player - as good as anyone else has in the NPC and better than our Crusaders options IMO.
Not a fan of O'Çonnor - but, I guess I'm not surprised. There's no very obvious options to bring in short term as a bridge back to Richie.
Nearly 20 years ago there was an Australian guy called Lee Grant posted here - he had the young JOC marked down as the next Mark Ella. He might have been except he did some dickhead things.
Yeah William Havilli would have been useful with that left boot of his.
O'Connor signing to me could be a repeat of the bad signings from last season Halfpenny etc. -
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@Landers92 said in Crusaders 2025:
JOC will be 35 mid way through next season… speaks volumes of the current 10 situation, not just in crusaders territory, but NZ as a whole. Bit of a panicky signing
Turns 35 in July after SR has finished.
But you are right it is were we seem to be as country as far as First five depth goes,when it has always been a strength. -
@Chris said in Crusaders 2025:
@Landers92 said in Crusaders 2025:
JOC will be 35 mid way through next season… speaks volumes of the current 10 situation, not just in crusaders territory, but NZ as a whole. Bit of a panicky signing
Turns 35 in July after SR has finished.
But you are right it is were we seem to be as country as far as First five depth goes,when it has always been a strength.Sorry that’s a habit. Should have said mid way through next year. Point stands though, F all difference between 34 and 35. Not a great look if he is signed in my opinion.
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@Landers92 said in Crusaders 2025:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2025:
@Landers92 said in Crusaders 2025:
JOC will be 35 mid way through next season… speaks volumes of the current 10 situation, not just in crusaders territory, but NZ as a whole. Bit of a panicky signing
Turns 35 in July after SR has finished.
But you are right it is were we seem to be as country as far as First five depth goes,when it has always been a strength.Sorry that’s a habit. Should have said mid way through next year. Point stands though, F all difference between 34 and 35. Not a great look if he is signed in my opinion.
I hear it’s a done deal , and for me a shit signing to say the least.
Thanks again Rob and Colin. -
@Landers92 said in Crusaders 2025:
JOC will be 35 mid way through next season… speaks volumes of the current 10 situation, not just in crusaders territory, but NZ as a whole. Bit of a panicky signing
I think this is a little bit of a misconception. From an ABs perspective, absolutely - from a SR perspective, it is the same as always. Look at 2015 for example:
Blues:
Bowden
Hickey
WestChiefs:
Cruden
D McKenzie
M McKenzieHurricanes:
Barrett
Black
J MarshallCrusaders:
Carter
Taylor
SladeHighlanders:
Sopoaga
Banks
ParkerDepth is marginally better, because there is a few extra top guys, but the likes of Parker, J Marshall, M Mackenzie, Bowden etc. were incredibly ordinary.
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@frugby I see what you’re saying but I’m more referring to a NZ super rugby franchise looking for 10’s outside of NZ for what is about to be 3 years in a row. Freddie Burns(Highlanders 2023) Rhys Patchell(Highlanders 2024), James O’Conner(Crusaders 2025).
I’d also argue that the bunch of players you just posted has a lot better depth than what’s going around now in NZ in the 10 jersey. There are 7 All Blacks scattered in there with 3 being at the Crusaders.
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@Landers92 said in Crusaders 2025:
@frugby I see what you’re saying but I’m more referring to a NZ super rugby franchise looking for 10’s outside of NZ for what is about to be 3 years in a row. Freddie Burns(Highlanders 2023) Rhys Patchell(Highlanders 2024), James O’Conner(Crusaders 2025).
I’d also argue that the bunch of players you just posted has a lot better depth than what’s going around now in NZ in the 10 jersey. There are 7 All Blacks scattered in there with 3 being at the Crusaders.
Yep. Depth is better because the top end is better... but the bottom end is no worse now than it was then.
For example, I loved Marty Banks, but he was always more cult-hero than he was top quality.
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@frugby said in Crusaders 2025:
@Landers92 said in Crusaders 2025:
@frugby I see what you’re saying but I’m more referring to a NZ super rugby franchise looking for 10’s outside of NZ for what is about to be 3 years in a row. Freddie Burns(Highlanders 2023) Rhys Patchell(Highlanders 2024), James O’Conner(Crusaders 2025).
I’d also argue that the bunch of players you just posted has a lot better depth than what’s going around now in NZ in the 10 jersey. There are 7 All Blacks scattered in there with 3 being at the Crusaders.
Depth is better because the top end is better....
That’s a new one😂 I’m just going to agree to disagree mate.
Back to the topic. Looking forward to seeing how JOC plays out.
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It seems as though the review into the 2024 season has attributed the poor season purely on injuries and the strong finish has kind of made this pretty evident. Next year it appears we won't be loosing that much cattle, simply getting more playing time from our stars which we didn't have the luxury of this year. Would be feeling a whole lot more confident if there was some kind of rejig of coaching staff and a few descent signings. If we could get LF back earlier for the Super season, that would be massive.
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Here's the initial Crusaders 2024 squad from last year (I think, I had to make a couple of adjustments to what was listed in the article I cut this from):
Props:
Joe Moody, Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, George Bower, Finlay Brewis,Owen Franks.Hookers: Codie Taylor, Brodie McAlister, George Bell, Ioane Moananu.
Locks: Scott Barrett, Quinten Strange, Tahlor Cahill,
Zach Gallagher, Jamie Hannah.Loose forwards: Ethan Blackadder, Tom Christie, Cullen Grace, Dominic Gardiner, Corey Kellow, Christian Lio-Willie.
Halfbacks: Noah Hotham, Mitch Drummond,
Willi Heinz.First five eighths:
Fergus Burke, Rivez Reihana, Taha Kemara.Midfielders:
Ryan Crotty, Levi Aumua, Dallas McLeod, David Havili.Outside backs: Will Jordan, Sevu Reece, Macca Springer,
Leigh Halfpenny, Manasa Mataele, Jone Rova, Chay Fihaki, Heremaia Murray.Lines through guys who I'm pretty sure aren't coming back.
Calder and Sykes Martin replacing the props.
I would sign Shalfoon to replace Gallagher and Louie Chapman to replace Heinz.
Seems like JOC will replace Burke.
Jonny McNicoll has replaced Halfpenny.
Jone Rova will arguably replace Crotty, so maybe we just need an outside back - or in fact we've had an extra hooker - so we may be done in terms of a squad of 38 - unless Penney is going to cut some other guys on this list.
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@Chris-B said in Crusaders 2025:
Here's the initial Crusaders 2024 squad from last year (I think, I had to make a couple of adjustments to what was listed in the article I cut this from):
Props:
Joe Moody, Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, George Bower, Finlay Brewis,Owen Franks.Hookers: Codie Taylor, Brodie McAlister, George Bell, Ioane Moananu.
Locks: Scott Barrett, Quinten Strange, Tahlor Cahill,
Zach Gallagher, Jamie Hannah.Loose forwards: Ethan Blackadder, Tom Christie, Cullen Grace, Dominic Gardiner, Corey Kellow, Christian Lio-Willie.
Halfbacks:l ~ Noah Hotham, Mitch Drummond, Willi Heinz.
First five eighths:
Fergus Burke, Rivez Reihana, Taha Kemara.Midfielders:
Ryan Crotty, Levi Aumua, Dallas McLeod, David Havili.Outside backs: Will Jordan, Sevu Reece, Macca Springer,
Leigh Halfpenny, Manasa Mataele, Jone Rova, Chay Fihaki, Heremaia Murray.Lines through guys who I'm pretty sure aren't coming back.
Calder and Sykes Martin replacing the props.
I would sign Shalfoon to replace Gallagher and Louie Chapman to replace Heinz.
Seems like JOC will replace Burke.
Jonny McNicoll has replaced Halfpenny.
Jone Rova will arguably replace Crotty, so maybe we just need an outside back - or in fact we've had an extra hooker - so we may be done in terms of a squad of 38 - unless Penney is going to cut some other guys on this list.
This is what I think we will look like
Hookers
Codie Taylor, Brodie McAlister, George Bell
We will not carry 4 that was only because of Taylor's sabbatical last season
Ioane Moananu. wil not be signed opening up a spot for an extra LF.Props
Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, George Bower, Finlay Brewis
sorted Sam Calder and Sykes Martin in for Moody and franksLocks
Scott Barrett, Quinten Strange, Tahlor Cahill Jamie Hannah.
Shalfoon to get Gallghers spot we may also add Liam Jack and use Taylor Cahill to covers the LF's.LF'S
Ethan Blackadder, Tom Christie, Cullen Grace, Dominic Gardiner, Corey Kellow, Christian Lio-Willie.IF Cahill doesn't cover Torian Barnes or Fletcher Anderson likely to be added.
HBs
Noah Hotham, Mitch Drummond,
Nick Shearer or Louie chapman for the 3rd spotFirst Fives
Rivez Reihana, Taha Kemara.
James O'Connor to get the 3rd spotMid field
Levi Aumua, Dallas McLeod, David Havili,Jone Rova
Braydon Ennor to replace Crotty
Rove was already in last years squad.Outside backs
Will Jordan, Sevu Reece, Macca Springer, Chay Fihaki,Johnny McNicol,
last spot
Issac Hutchinson,Jack Gray,Maloni Kunawave (rated vey highly)the best bets for inside the region
we make look outside the region for that spot -
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@Chris Yeah - that looks about right to me. I'd forgotten about Braydon Ennor - Rove was listed as an outside back last year, so I'd moved him to the midfield.
I'd dropped one of the hookers to get down to 38. If TR is right and Murray is gone - then Ennor takes that place - is Mataele gone as well? That would leave a spot open.
I think Maloni Kunawave might be signed for Sevens, but don't take that as gospel.
Given the number of good young halfbacks around, I'd be looking hard at whether Mitch Drummond is still worth a spot.
Dom Gardiner hasn't really lived up to his billing yet - the ice is a bit thin under him. Still just a kid, I guess.
Brodie McAlister would be under some pressure from Moanunu.
