England to whitewash Australia

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585373" data-time="1465251752">
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Been hearing about scholarships for a long time, but like London buses, you wait 11 years since the last one (Sivi) and then suddenly 2 come along at once (Fekitoa and Taminvalu). (Yes I know Fekitoa self-auditioned rather than on the back if a tip from any scout for the high schools).
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Naholo makes it 3 in recent times. But we did have Taumoepeau and Devine around the same time as Sivi, so it may not be a trend at all. Vidiri and Vanisi were just a egregious in the previous era.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585377" data-time="1465251966">
This is off topic, but not worth a thread of its own. But kind of on topic in the diverted poaching tangent ..... 
I see about 3 or 4 Japanese names in Wellington club rugby. Anyone in the know with welly rugby tell me if these are Japaese guys over here for the rugby? Or are they kiwis with Japanese names? 
Either way is pretty awesome IMO anyway.</blockquote>
 
That's interesting , there used to be an all Chinese club . Not sure if they are still around

gt12

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585377" data-time="1465251966">This is off topic, but not worth a thread of its own. But kind of on topic in the diverted poaching tangent ..... 
I see about 3 or 4 Japanese names in Wellington club rugby. Anyone in the know with welly rugby tell me if these are Japaese guys over here for the rugby? Or are they kiwis with Japanese names? 
Either way is pretty awesome IMO anyway.</blockquote>
 
I can't speak for Wellington, but I know of two young players who've gone to NZ for rugby - one plays for Rotorua boys (reserve halfback - was recently featured on tele over here during Sannix HS tournament) and the other is from our school - was a JP high school rep (apparently) and has gone to NZ to try to break in to club rugby and hopefully ATM cup. He's also a halfback and is meant to be quite good. 
In the past, I used to play with two other guys who had gone to NZ to play club level, but both of them were on working holidays and not trying to advance - that's probably the difference, after seeing Tanaka and Horie do well, more younger players will go with higher goals. 
Finally, the JP name thing is worth remembering. My sisters are married to JP blokes, so their kids have JP names but go to school etc. etc. in NZ (they seem to like Cricket). I have a bunch of other friends (most of them Australian and Welsh) married to JP blokes, so we'll probably get more 'halfs' turning out in different places.

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="585379" data-time="1465253595">
Naholo makes it 3 in recent times. But we did have Taumoepeau and Devine around the same time as Sivi, so it may not be a trend at all. Vidiri and Vanisi were just a egregious in the previous era.</blockquote>
 
True. I guess I'm talking more scholarships. So I've discounted Naholo. 
I don't know the number of scholarships, I actually suspect they are very few, but I've been expecting to see more come through - as the practice spreads outside of Auckland over the last decade - and it start to become an 'issue'. But it really hasn't. 
Apart from Sivi, the only other I know of before these 2 is David Smith; he had to serve 3 years after leaving school and then got into the NZ 7s.

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gt12" data-cid="585383" data-time="1465254340">
I can't speak for Wellington, but I know of two young players who've gone to NZ for rugby - one plays for Rotorua boys (reserve halfback - was recently featured on tele over here during Sannix HS tournament) and the other is from our school - was a JP high school rep (apparently) and has gone to NZ to try to break in to club rugby and hopefully ATM cup. He's also a halfback and is meant to be quite good. 
In the past, I used to play with two other guys who had gone to NZ to play club level, but both of them were on working holidays and not trying to advance - that's probably the difference, after seeing Tanaka and Horie do well, more younger players will go with higher goals. 
Finally, the JP name thing is worth remembering. My sisters are married to JP blokes, so their kids have JP names but go to school etc. etc. in NZ (they seem to like Cricket). I have a bunch of other friends (most of them Australian and Welsh) married to JP blokes, so we'll probably get more 'halfs' turning out in different places.</blockquote>
 
The Jaoanese 10 at the last World Cup spent a few years at, I think, CBHS. Not sure of his circumstances.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="585379" data-time="1465253595">
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Naholo makes it 3 in recent times. But we did have Taumoepeau and Devine around the same time as Sivi, so it may not be a trend at all. Vidiri and Vanisi were just a egregious in the previous era.
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I think he came to NZ as a kid with his family.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585388" data-time="1465255012">
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I don't know the number of scholarships, I actually suspect they are very few, but I've been expecting to see more come through - as the practice spreads outside of Auckland over the last decade - and it start to become an 'issue'. But it really hasn't.
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Good point. I would say a lot of it has to do with top tier PI talent going with other options (GPS Queensland, GPS NSW, NRL U20s, Europe). Certainly seems like scholarship players are on the rise in NZ, but from a pure $$$ and opportunity standpoint playing schoolboys rugby in Australia or going onto a contract at the U20s is going to give you more cash sooner - I would dare say those outfits are more aggressive recruiters also.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="585391" data-time="1465255878">
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Good point. I would say a lot of it has to do with top tier PI talent going with other options (GPS Queensland, GPS NSW, NRL U20s, Europe). Certainly seems like scholarship players are on the rise in NZ, but from a pure $$$ and opportunity standpoint playing schoolboys rugby in Australia or going onto a contract at the U20s is going to give you more cash sooner - I would dare say those outfits are more aggressive recruiters also.
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Is it really (I don't actually know)? There's always been lots of PI scholarships in NZ (Josh Kronfeld's grandfather came out on one in the 1930s. ;)).

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="585394" data-time="1465256817">
Is it really (I don't actually know)? There's always been lots of PI scholarships in NZ (Josh Kronfeld's grandfather came out on one in the 1930s. ;)).</blockquote> 
Anecdotally, I think it is. Article in the weekend about Naholo - that he has managed to get 2 of his brothers out here on scholarships now. One at Hastings Boys and the other at NPBHS. Did these schools have any scholarship places 10 yeas ago? I know my school which is a super 8, did not 20 odd years ago. Actually I don't know if they do now ..,,

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585395" data-time="1465257375">
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Anecdotally, I think it is. Article in the weekend about Naholo - that he has managed to get 2 of his brothers out here on scholarships now. One at Hastings Boys and the other at NPBHS. Did these schools have any scholarship places 10 yeas ago? I know my school which is a super 8, did not 20 odd years ago. Actually I don't know if they do now ..,,
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Hastings Boys had scholarships when I was there (although I can't remember us getting any good rugby players from them) but they might be directed more at rugby players these days.
 
I was wondering how the Naholo brother turned up in Hastings. 
 
Which Super 8 school is yours?

Immenso Rapido

Tauranga.

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="585379" data-time="1465253595">
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Naholo makes it 3 in recent times. But we did have Taumoepeau and Devine around the same time as Sivi, so it may not be a trend at all. Vidiri and Vanisi were just a egregious in the previous era.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="585390" data-time="1465255801">
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I think he came to NZ as a kid with his family.
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Is this Kupu Vanisi, the open side with the dreads?
 
I played him when he was a 17 year old student at Kings High in Dunedin, so he more than adequately qualifies as a kiwi lad who earned the right - not much of a privileged ride playing in Dunners every June/July in the early 90's . The bugger was the same size then as he was on TV years later - lovely kid too

MajorRage

All this discussion is a silly exercise, which just helps to re-inforce his point.
 
It's a global problem, not isolated to the PI's, not isolated to NZ & Australia. It'll be mentioned as long as we are winning.
 
You can bet your bottom dollar if Mario Itoje was playing for NZ, his background would be checked all the way back to come up with some sort of negative about NZ rugby and the way it's run. 
 
As long as we win, as long as we dominate, the story will never change. The only way it will change is if we fall off a massive cliff performance wise, and then things are written in a "sad/sorry state of NZ rugby" sort of way. Take your pic, I'll take the current anyday.
 
Despite the best efforts of the UK media, I still find that I can enjoy a pint with most English supporters, who are somewhat more open minded than the people who write about their rugby team. Sure, there's plenty of arse licking twitter trolls who will go on about it, but you'll never please everybody.
 
It's part of the territory of having 3 world cups, and the dominance we've enjoyed of late.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="585422" data-time="1465265060">
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All this discussion is a silly exercise, which just helps to re-inforce his point.
 
It's a global problem, not isolated to the PI's, not isolated to NZ & Australia. It'll be mentioned as long as we are winning.
 
You can bet your bottom dollar if Mario Itoje was playing for NZ, his background would be checked all the way back to come up with some sort of negative about NZ rugby and the way it's run. 
 
As long as we win, as long as we dominate, the story will never change. The only way it will change is if we fall off a massive cliff performance wise, and then things are written in a "sad/sorry state of NZ rugby" sort of way. Take your pic, I'll take the current anyday.
 
Despite the best efforts of the UK media, I still find that I can enjoy a pint with most English supporters, who are somewhat more open minded than the people who write about their rugby team. Sure, there's plenty of arse licking twitter trolls who will go on about it, but you'll never please everybody.
 
It's part of the territory of having 3 world cups, and the dominance we've enjoyed of late. 
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Jones has always written inflammatory shit about the ABs though, one article beating off how Martin Johnson was so much better as a leader than Rueben Thorne, Jonny Wilkinson so much better than Merhts and Spencer.....they had more effect in those days.
 
It is disappointing that players I used to hate like Will Carling and Austin Healey come across as good guys, luckily Matt Dawsons hakarena bullshit made it easy to despise him and after their performance in the cup made him look like a fuckknuckle of epic proportions......

Immenso Rapido

Itâ€™s a very slow rugby week. 
On the scholarships thing / and where nationality begins and ends â€¦. 
For me; my touchstone is Rugby League - where NZ get in the supplier/feeder side of the ledger. About 10 or so years ago you had 3 young uncapped guys starting out in the NRL with kiwi roots; SBW, Benji Marshall and Karmichael Hunt. SBW and Benji had been recruited by Aussie high schools on scholarships at aboutage 16 â€“ while Hunt had moved with his family at age 13. To me it felt like SBW and Benji should be Kiwis - as there reason for being there was always football related - while Hunt should be Aussie. And that is actually how it worked out. 
I mean we get a few back, but the Cayless brothers aren't worth a Benji and Sonny. 
Then about 10 years later, James Tamou whose circumstances are the same as Hunt chooses the Aussies (as he should) but gets booed by the kiwi crowds. Didnâ€™t get that. People who move with their family should embrace there new country IMO. 
Quade Cooper also moved at 13, but his booing was for an entirely different reason â€¦ I mean Manny Edmonds didnâ€™t get heckled etc â€¦â€¦

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585429" data-time="1465266486">
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Then about 10 years later, James Tamou whose circumstances are the same as Hunt chooses the Aussies (as he should) but gets booed by the kiwi crowds. Didnâ€™t get that. People who move with their family should embrace there new country IMO.
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IIRC Tamou still only has a NZ passport so hasn't fully embraced his new country. Quade is the same.

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="585430" data-time="1465266846">
IIRC Tamou still only has a NZ passport so hasn't fully embraced his new country. Quade is the same.</blockquote>
Actually may be his new country hasn't embraced him if it's the John Howard changes preventing them getting one. born in 88, move at 13 - which means 2001. Rules changed in Feb 2001. 
Not an issue imo, is just a booklet. Kaino has a US passport apparently rather than a kiwi one. 
Edit. By not an issue - mean having dual citizenship, or not citizenship but being well embedded in new country without the passport. I do think the Aussie changes to some of the Kiwi residents in Oz's rights are in many ways quite scandalous.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585429" data-time="1465266486">
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Then about 10 years later, James Tamou whose circumstances are the same as Hunt chooses the Aussies (as he should) but gets booed by the kiwi crowds. Didnâ€™t get that. People who move with their family should embrace there new country IMO. 

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Wasn't Tamou boo'd as he was in an NZ squad (which he wanted to be) but then chose Australia solely so he could play Origin?

Immenso Rapido

Actually just looking at Tamou's wiki page. He played for NZ Moari, and also in Kiwi training squads in the years before switching to Roos. Hence the antipathy, fair enough then I suppose.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="585433" data-time="1465267731">
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Wasn't Tamou boo'd as he was in an NZ squad (which he wanted to be) but then chose Australia solely so he could play Origin?
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The reason <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/james-tamou-has-turned-his-back-on-the-kiwis-and-declared-he-wants-to-represent-nsw-in-origin/story-fnbgtxvf-1226320055379'>Tamou was booed</a> was because he treated his national allegiance like a club selection. To be fair though I don't think this was his intent.
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"> The rampaging Tamou made the Kiwi train-on squad last year for the Four Nations and as late as Monday night was still talking about his dream of breaking into New Zealand's Test team.
He said <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/game?matchid=NRL20120508'>after the Cowboys' win over Canberra</a>: "I'll be honest, it's in the back of my mind (selection for the April 20 Test in Auckland). I've thought about it and I would be upset if I wasn't picked (for New Zealand).'' 
But yesterday he explained how the change of heart came about.
"The situation is Ricky Stuart rang me last year and asked if I was available,'' Tamou added. "At the time I said thanks for the call but I want to play for the Kiwis.
"Anyway, Ricky rang me again a couple of weeks ago and said; 'Mate, do you want to play Origin?'
"This time I really had a good think about it and I got some advice.
"Something that astood out was when my manager Sam Ayoub said it's not every day the NSW coach rings you and asks if you're available.
"Everyone knows Origin is centre stage for the world of rugby league. I grew up watching it with a passion and admiring the players who play in it.
"I was asked and I decided I wanted to have a go at Origin.''
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Tamou was booed because he was on the record wanting to play for NZ and got sweet talked by Ricky Stuart (aside from being genuinely unlikable remember post the '08 World Cup final) to sell out his country. Gallen was also mentioned at the time having tempted him also.
 
Also there is a genuine frustration that Aussie use Origin as a lure for otherwise Kiwi players - Karmichael having set the table to for that.

The Silver Fern

England to whitewash Australia