Aussie Community Rugby
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@Rancid-Schnitzel same down here - junior clubs things are generally ok until about U15s and then schools fuck it up.
Connection to seniors is generally lost unless you're good enough to play Prem Colts. Most kids don't even know there is a Subbies club in the neighbourhood, and there are nearly 50 Subbies clubs across Sydney compared to 10 Prem clubs.
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If they go back to three teams, will rugby die in Perth and Melbourne? How many homegrown players have those regions produced? I understand that a lot of expats play in Perth and the Melbourne club scene has a high percentage of Polynesian players.
Could an improved NRC based more on club lines help build the base of the pyramid and be played at the same time as Super? What would a rugby version of the league system look like?
Their is a two tiered club system isn't there? Those Shute shield teams are like pro clubs aren't they? More players in a club in Sydney than premier players in Southland, NZ?
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@mikedogz said in Aussie Rugby:
If they go back to three teams, will rugby die in Perth and Melbourne?
It wont die, the Dewar Shield has been around for over 114 years, yes there are alot of expat (NZ, PI and Irish) knocking around the club scene in melbourne but there always has been, we currently have very little connection with the rebels, mainly our coaches coaching the various age grade teams
the interesting and damning thing for me...there is currently a state rep team tour going on (we have three guys in the squad)
These have nothing to do with the super teams....not a complicated structure at all!
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Would a ten team Aussie only comp be a better TV product for Aussie TV audiences? The top two/four could play qualify for a separate international comp. It seems weird that Sydney/NSW has one pro rugby team when other sports have 2 or 3 and the NRL has 9 in Sydney alone.
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@mikedogz said in Aussie Rugby:
Would a ten team Aussie only comp be a better TV product for Aussie TV audiences? The top two/four could play qualify for a separate international comp. It seems weird that Sydney/NSW has one pro rugby team when other sports have 2 or 3 and the NRL has 9 in Sydney alone.
It might be a better comp in some ways - could be competitive and entertaining within itself. But would have to deal with all the same issues of the old ARC.
Reckon it would work well for Melbourne, for example - if we no longer had a Super Rugby team, but had a Rebels team playing in a decent national comp, that would serve as a focus for the rugby community and a pathway for Victorian players.
Don't think it would sit so well in Sydney and Qld though. Too incompatible with the established comps and traditional set-up.
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@Kiwiwomble which club are you with?
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@GibbonRib Power House
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@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
It exposes more players to professionalism.
And coaches, hopefully...
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@GibbonRib said in Aussie Rugby:
Don't think it would sit so well in Sydney and Qld though. Too incompatible with the established comps and traditional set-up.
In terms of Sydney: there are a few clubs who would gladly knife the rest if they could make a quick buck from a national comp.
The Premier Rugby competition (sometimes referred to as Shute Shield but that is just First Grade) consists of (currently) 11 clubs with 4 Senior Grades and 3 Colts Grades each... well in theory.
Randwick, Eastwood, Sydney Uni, Gordon, and Eastern Suburbs have enough players for probably 5 Senior Grades and 4 Colts sides. Maybe more. They warehouse a lot of guys so they can take rego money off them every year. Easy money from idiots who are happy to get a pair of shorts and socks, and sit on the bench for 10 minutes every other week.
Northern Suburbs, Manly, and Warringah probably sit in the next tranche, with Norths in particular having issues fielding all 3 Colts sides this year. Warringah's Colts were good, but Grade were duds in 2023.
Hunter Wildfires (based in Newcastle) are only in the comp as a rescue mission* and only field 2 Grades + 1 Colts - they might not be there next year, because the Newcastle comp is also suffering and they can't get the numbers, and the travel is a bit of an issue.
*Penrith were slowly imploding but they wanted 12 clubs, so Hunter stepped in. Then Penrith left to go play in Canberra, where they also got smaaaaaaaaashed
West Harbour and Southern Districts fielded all their teams but mostly got whipped.
Two Blues could only field 3 Grades + 2 Colts (struggled to do that) and their results were ordinary. First Grade finished mid table (9W, 9L), Second Grade bottom 4 (7W, 11L), and Thirds stone cold last (1W from 17). Their Colts failed to win a single game between them. I'm shocked they haven't fallen over.
So, with the top 4-5 clubs in Sydney, and 3-4 from Brisbane, and one each from Canberra and Melbourne, you could create a decent competition BUT funding it is the issue.
Besides bus trips between Sydney and Canberra, everything else is a flight. If you want to include Perth, it is an expensive flight.
We don't exactly have billionaires lying around to fund this (besides Twiggy) so it'll need some creative thinking to work.
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Just caught up with a friend who has been living in Sydney for the last 20 years
He played club here in Auckland but also a bit of club in Sydney
He was telling me how ignorant many sectors of the NZ Media have become
This notion that rugby in Australia is load of crap in his words..
Club games in Sydney can pull up to 5-7k especially if the top sides are playing
The Shutte Shield is very popular
They have an U16 and 18 comps which are both strong with all clubs fielding teams
The real missing piece they have is quality coaching
They have some very good athletes but poor coaching always a challenge with league being so strong in a city of 5m ..
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
Great to get that feedback
Although he did say ,he thought Oz had one too many super teams in his opinion he would cut Melbourne
Its just not a rugby town
But Perth has a big rugby community and a lot of ex pats NZ’s and Africans -
@Steven-Harris said in Aussie Rugby:
Club games in Sydney can pull up to 5-7k especially if the top sides are playing
The Shutte Shield is very popularcan pull thousands. The derbies like Warringah v Manly are very popular. The average would be more like hundreds.
The Shute Shield is popular with itself. They've adopted the Brumbies siege/victim mentality against everyone else, and like to spruik how their clubs are so awesome but also "grassroots".
And then they recruit a hundred kids to play for their three U20 teams and a lot of them get minimal game time. Literally there to help pay the bills. They've got tribalism within their own sphere, but don't have the kind of capture across Sydney they'd like to think.
They could address this if they'd align themselves with Subbies clubs - Eastwood are about to move in close to us. We'd be happy to give their excess U20 players a season with us in order to get minutes and perhaps progress their game.
The fluffybunnies don't even speak to us except to ask if they can borrow our ground. Get fucked.
They have an U16 and 18 comps which are both strong with all clubs fielding teams
I'm not sure that is actually correct. There are rep programs aligned with the Premier Rugby (Shute Shield) clubs but they aren't a weekly proposition. Some Premier clubs in the eastern suburbs have no juniors at all.
A lot of Junior clubs who spend time and effort putting these kids on the park every weekend are supplying the bodies, then get fucked over when schools tell them their kids can't play club any more.
The real missing piece they have is quality coaching
Absolutely this is an issue. It is created by the fact that our competitions are disjointed and tiny (and not well administered). This means you can be a good coach in a small pond when your talent is good.
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
Remains to be seen - the money still isn't there to support them and keep them out of league's clutches. League can capture hundreds of kids to feed the beast because the payoff is superior to rugby in percentage terms.
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@Steven-Harris said in Aussie Rugby:
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
This and the Oz U18 vs NZ Schools were on last weekend at my local. I went for a ride because I didn't know it was on. That's how good the messaging out of RA is.
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@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@Steven-Harris said in Aussie Rugby:
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
This and the Oz U18 vs NZ Schools were on last weekend at my local. I went for a ride because I didn't know it was on. That's how good the messaging out of RA is.
"WHY AREN'T PEOPLE SUPPORTING THE GREAT GAME?!!" they cry.
Well, because unless you're a parent of one of the players, you wouldn't know anything about that shit.
Seriously guys, spend $200 on social media advertising targeted to Canberra for a 2-day blitz and you'd get attendance.
I hear the catering was shit as well.
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Oh, and if you want an illustration of how fucked rugby is in Australia, and why it's actually going to die
I registered my 12 year old son for his 2 month season up here. $90
That came with a breakdown.
$5 went to his club
Much much more was the QRU and ARU levy. 12 year olds are paying to prop up elite rugby, not the other way around.Compare that to league and AFL and wonder where kids are going to play
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby:
Oh, and if you want an illustration of how fucked rugby is in Australia, and why it's actually going to die
I registered my 12 year old son for his 2 month season up here. $90
That came with a breakdown.
$5 went to his club
Much much more was the QRU and ARU levy. 12 year olds are paying to prop up elite rugby, not the other way around.Compare that to league and AFL and wonder where kids are going to play
did that cover some insurance and or any kit?
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@Kiwiwomble insurance yes. Kit no.
Entirely volunteer run. I'm coaching U12s with no assistance. At training I also have to coach the 10s because there is no one.
Comp is run by volunteers. Clubs are run by volunteers. Of course coaches are parents (which makes game day okay because all the coaches for the different clubs I either played rep with or played against)
No QRU assistance. Yes we're at the end of the world. But go look at the junior AFL and league set-ups
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby:
No QRU assistance. Yes we're at the end of the world.
Location is irrelevant. I'm a short drive from RA HQ in Sydney, a bit further to NSW Rugby HQ, and it is exactly the same.
Send a form off to the Tahs to ask for a player to turn up at training. Not even a "get fucked" in reply. Doesn't matter anyway as nobody would know who it is.
Get in touch with the 3 Development Officers in town about getting contacts with local rugby schools. Helpful suggestions via email. Nothing concrete.
Hassled one of the DOs until they said maybe we could host one of the High School gala days from our area at our ground (lesser private schools). Told him we'd sort it out, great playing surface, just give us a date and any requirements. Ready to take a day off in order to make it happen. Radio silence. Open FB to find one of the schools hosting it instead.
Why put in the effort?
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Local news: for the first time since I joined back in 2019, there are going to be positions contested at the NSW Suburban Rugby AGM!
There's a bit of a kerfuffle going on with 2 clubs who don't want to be relegated to Division 2, and I believe some the nominations for new board members relates closely to these matters.
Finally I'm involved in rugby politics. It'll be the best AGM attendance ever.
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Community Rugby letter that went out this morning.
Good morning,
In March this year Rugby Australia committed to participate in a two-year global law trial, facilitated by World Rugby, which will result in the legal tackle height being reduced from below the line of the shoulders to the sternum at Community level.
Following consultation with our Member Unions as well as coaches, match officials, administrators and medical professionals, the tackle height will be lowered to below the base of the sternum for all competitions below Super Rugby that commence on or after February 10, 2024. This change in law will include all Premier Grades, School Competitions, and Pathway Competitions.
In all stakeholder engagement, key consideration was given to:
- enhancing player safety.
- the experience for the players, including professional players.
- additional challenges that could be encountered by match officials.
- possible changes to tactics and tackle technique currently being coached.
- perception of the game by people not currently involved in rugby.
Changing the legal tackle height to the base of the sternum ensures the tackler's head is lower relative to the ball carrier's body, minimising the risk of head-to-head, and head-to-shoulder contact, and reducing the risk of head injury to both players. Initial trials and research findings over the last six years have indicated that the risk of concussion is 4.2 times higher when a tackler's head is positioned above the sternum of the ball carrier and the safest place to tackle is between the waist and sternum. The global law trial includes major Unions around the world such as England, France, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland, South Africa, and Wales, and early indications are very positive with significant reduction in head impacts and suspected concussion being reported.
As part of the research select competitions around the world are being filmed and then analysed by World Rugby to undertake a comparison between significant head impacts and concussion under the previous law and the variation, as well as tracking the variation year to year. This assessment will review the positioning of tackler and ball carrier, their head proximity, point of contact, tackle type, direction of players, evasion techniques, number of passes preceding tackle etc. Game metric outcomes such as ball in play time, passing rate and offloads will also be captured as part of the trial evaluation.
To support your coaches and match officials with this transition to the new tackle height we have produced a range of resources and training materials. Match officials will be asked to place greater emphasis on the existing law preventing a ball carrier from “dipping” into a tackle and placing themselves, and potentially the defender, in an unsafe position for contact. The new law will not change the ability for an attacking player to "pick-and-go" where the ball carrier typically starts and continues at a low body height. The defender will still be required to avoid contact with the head and neck of the ball carrier as stipulated in the existing World Rugby Head Contact framework.
It is important to note there may be an adjustment period for players and match officials so please be patient through this time. For more information and ongoing updates, please visit our website.
We will continue to ensure that any decisions impacting the game are informed by research and evidence that prioritise player safety and welfare.
Thank you for your involvement in Rugby.
Kind Regards,
Phil Waugh - CEO, Rugby Australia
