Super Rugby 2024
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@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Machpants An Australian trying to be an obnoxious American. Classic case.
Is there a factory for these guys over there?
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Paddy Gower Has Issues: NZ Rugby 'incredibly open' to dramatic changes to Super Rugby player eligibility rules | Newshub
Mark Robinson says allowing NZ contracted players to play for Australian or Pasifika teams is a concept the competition "should be moving towards quite quickly".
looking forward to watching @Stargazer and @Dan54 burying their heads further into the sand on this one
Not burying my head, it's a shit idea. and one that will cause problems etc. Bottom line is if Aussie want to let thir players play anywhere in world and play for Wallabies, why the f*** are their and needing NZ to prop up their teams? Why don't we just call it what it will be, NZ super rugby comp with a couple of teams based in Aussie?
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2024:
Sanzaar has been forced to put out a statement “to clear up any misunderstanding” about the window for the Rugby Championship after Rugby Australia chair Hamish McLennan claimed it could move to March-April from its current place of August-September on the calendar.
McLennan, who is currently chair of Sanzaar, told a NZME podcast that Australia was open to moving it to earlier in the year in support of South Africa, but that NZ Rugby was in opposition.
“It’s going to land on NZ Rugby’s doorstep, and they’ve got to decide what they’re going to do,” he said.
However, within hours Sanzaar shot down that suggestion, noting that despite the claims of its own chair a deal to keep the Rugby Championship in place had already been signed earlier this year.“Sanzaar can reiterate that until 2026 the existing mini-tour match schedule is locked in.
“Furthermore, the Rugby Championship window will not change from 2026 with the national unions working on competition models for the August/September window to ensure maximum high performance and commercial outcomes.
“Sanzaar is part of World Rugby’s working programme that is exploring the potential creation of a global calendar, and review of playing windows, as part of the Games’ work on the wider Regulation 9 (player availability) review.
“The Sanzaar Executive Committee has agreed the Rugby Championship has to fit into the existing sanctioned World Rugby playing windows for international rugby matches.
“Sanzaar apologises for any confusion on the Rugby Championship playing schedule.”I think it's fair to assume you can also forget about Super Rugby being moved.
Does Hamish ever stop and think before he spouts off in the press? It never stops!
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@Tim Maybe, the way the WR Nations Championship - in the current state of negotiations (we don't know where they are at) is taking shape doesn't affect the window that the Rugby Championship will be played, and therefore also not when SR will be played?
Or there are special clauses in the SANZAAR agreement about TRC/Super Rugby, that allow for a change when the WR Nations Championship does result in changes in the playing window in 2026?
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Rugby's 'crossroads': Hansen fears for future of game if changes not made
World Cup-winning coach says the NRL is a better product to watch at the moment.
“There’s no dispute that Super Rugby has to change. It’s pretty predictable and still stuck where it was four or five years ago. You go through the quarter-finals and it wasn’t that exciting as you knew who was going to win. Some of the ideas that have been floated by New Zealand Rugby and Australia are quite good ones, so let’s hope people are more flexible enough and more open enough to hear those ideas and maybe put them in place.
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Paddy Gower Has Issues: NZ Rugby 'incredibly open' to dramatic changes to Super Rugby player eligibility rules | Newshub
Mark Robinson says allowing NZ contracted players to play for Australian or Pasifika teams is a concept the competition "should be moving towards quite quickly".
looking forward to watching @Stargazer and @Dan54 burying their heads further into the sand on this one
Not burying my head, it's a shit idea. and one that will cause problems etc. Bottom line is if Aussie want to let thir players play anywhere in world and play for Wallabies, why the f*** are their and needing NZ to prop up their teams? Why don't we just call it what it will be, NZ super rugby comp with a couple of teams based in Aussie?
It clear that you and Stargazer are in obstinate denial on this, look past your shallow simplistic view & think about the competition as a whole, this insular mindset of us vs them is appalling on here, consider the game in Australasia, consider the bigger picture for once, not just the health of our national side.
Anyway, just as I predicted on here a few months ago your stance is becoming a minority.
The NZR is for it, the NZ players association is for it, the ARU is for it, Steve Hansen appears to be for it.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Paddy Gower Has Issues: NZ Rugby 'incredibly open' to dramatic changes to Super Rugby player eligibility rules | Newshub
Mark Robinson says allowing NZ contracted players to play for Australian or Pasifika teams is a concept the competition "should be moving towards quite quickly".
looking forward to watching @Stargazer and @Dan54 burying their heads further into the sand on this one
Not burying my head, it's a shit idea. and one that will cause problems etc. Bottom line is if Aussie want to let thir players play anywhere in world and play for Wallabies, why the f*** are their and needing NZ to prop up their teams? Why don't we just call it what it will be, NZ super rugby comp with a couple of teams based in Aussie?
It clear that you and Stargazer are in obstinate denial on this, look past your shallow simplistic view & think about the competition as a whole, this insular mindset of us vs them is appalling on here, consider the game in Australasia, consider the bigger picture for once, not just the health of our national side.
Anyway, just as I predicted on here a few months ago your stance is becoming a minority.
The NZR is for it, the NZ players association is for it, the ARU is for it, Steve Hansen appears to be for it.
Resorting to name-calling and playing the man is a sign of weakness, resulting from arrogance and a poverty of arguments.
You just post link after link and quote after quote from the same people, or with the same content, trying to make it look as if there are many people supporting those ideas, but the fact is that this is just a small group of journos who are reporting the same interviews with only a few people and publish from each other's work.
I can't even be bothered anymore to reply to you with counter-arguments (like, again, not just looking at crowd numbers but at total viewer numbers), because you dont' want to hear them. You're so bad at reading other people's opinions, that you totally miss the nuance in them. I can't speak for @Dan54, but I'm not against change, but the ideas have to be well-considered and all negative consequences have to be addressed first.
And finally, Mark Robinson isn't NZR. He's their CEO, but doesn't take the decisions. Still a lot of water to go under the bridge.
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@Stargazer I'd suggest the views of those attached to rugby at an elite level (respectfully) carries more weight.
Shag is always good when it comes to viewing the big picture, he thinks deeply about the game at a broader level.
"Hopefully we’re open and flexible enough in our thinking to try that. The idea of having a draft and the idea of being able to interchange players... shouldn’t hold any fears with our New Zealand players being able to play for the All Blacks."
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Paddy Gower Has Issues: NZ Rugby 'incredibly open' to dramatic changes to Super Rugby player eligibility rules | Newshub
Mark Robinson says allowing NZ contracted players to play for Australian or Pasifika teams is a concept the competition "should be moving towards quite quickly".
looking forward to watching @Stargazer and @Dan54 burying their heads further into the sand on this one
Not burying my head, it's a shit idea. and one that will cause problems etc. Bottom line is if Aussie want to let thir players play anywhere in world and play for Wallabies, why the f*** are their and needing NZ to prop up their teams? Why don't we just call it what it will be, NZ super rugby comp with a couple of teams based in Aussie?
It clear that you and Stargazer are in obstinate denial on this, look past your shallow simplistic view & think about the competition as a whole, this insular mindset of us vs them is appalling on here, consider the game in Australasia, consider the bigger picture for once, not just the health of our national side.
Anyway, just as I predicted on here a few months ago your stance is becoming a minority.
The NZR is for it, the NZ players association is for it, the ARU is for it, Steve Hansen appears to be for it.
NZR have demonstrated remarkable incompetence, as has the ARU and from about 2017 I've thought the less I hear from Hansen going forward, the happier I'll be.
The reason it's stupid is simple: Imagine being a Kiwi kid who is an absolute gun, destined by talent and work ethic to be a FAB. The draft comes along and next thing you know, the next three-four years of your career are at the Western Force, because they're cellar dwellers and get to have first choice at the draft. Your entire career is now fucked.
A draft works when the aspirants have no other choice. Rugby is a world game and players can fuck off and earn comparative (or higher) coin overseas. AFL and NFL players can't do that.
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@antipodean Reading comprehension - Please point out where I have discussed a draft? Only changes to Super Rugby player eligibility rules I've mentioned (hence the Mark Robinson interview that was posted earlier) I certainly wouldn't mind a draft either - anything that improves Super Rugby as a product (obviously...) should be explored, otherwise the people overseeing the comp aren't doing their job, oh wait they don't even have a dedicated CEO or board for SR - I rest my case.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean Reading comprehension - Please point out where I have discussed a draft? Only changes to Super Rugby player eligibility rules I've mentioned (hence the Mark Robinson interview that was posted earlier) I certainly wouldn't mind a draft either - anything that improves Super Rugby as a product (obviously...) should be explored, otherwise the people overseeing the comp aren't doing their job, oh wait they don't even have a dedicated CEO or board for SR - I rest my case.
The changes to eligibility rules being:
Robinson expect this and other ideas like a salary cap and a draft system will be considered with the establishment of the Super Rugby Commission - a new entity charged with overseeing and developing the competition.
Fuck knows what case you're resting on. A draft is daft as I've demonstrated. Eligibility is the same: No sensible AB coach is going to select players that have been ridden to death and coached poorly in AU. They're competing interests.
Long term the issue to resolving the SR competition is obvious and even RA acknowledges that they need to fix their pathways. Once they become competitive, the engagement and value increases, becoming a rugby perpetual motion machine.
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The interview with Mark Robinson at end of this appears like almost an IPL-franchise/draft model is being considered for Aus/NZ clubs. Obviously that would help Aus teams, but importantly it also helps NZ teams by generating revenue for the unions due to a stronger (therefore more marketable) competition.
The days when the domestic game's purpose was to feed the NT are over, the sooner unions realize that the better they can transition. The French were the first and there were growing pains yet look at them now, favourites for the RWC while boasting an unmatched domestic system.
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@kiwi_expat I can see the billionaires in NZ lining up
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat I can see the billionaires in NZ lining up
That's what people don't understand - the game is underpinned at the club level by wealthy benefactors. France, Ireland, England. NZ is lucky that the All Blacks are such a draw card. Aus makes kids subsidise the professional arm, not the other way like well run professional sporting competitions.
Once your benefactor grows tired of losing money or actually has no more money to give, you've got a problem.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2024:
@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat I can see the billionaires in NZ lining up
That's what people don't understand - the game is underpinned at the club level by wealthy benefactors. France, Ireland, England. NZ is lucky that the All Blacks are such a draw card. Aus makes kids subsidise the professional arm, not the other way like well run professional sporting competitions.
Once your benefactor grows tired of losing money or actually has no more money to give, you've got a problem.
c.f. Wasps, London Irish
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The IPL works on each franchise only being able to retain 4 players from the year before,
A draft in SR would need that extended to 23 to 26 retained players each year pretty hard to expect 90% of the players to move every year families etc must come into that equation. -
Open eligibility is the only viable way forward for South Pacific Rugby. But, the SR franchises have to be decoupled from the two governing bodies, they need to be independently, and preferably privately, run. SRP needs to be run as a professional league, not a glorified feeder competition for the AB's & Wallabies. It needs to run itself independent of NZR & RA. It needs to be a full season double round robin league, 22 rounds plus a final four. Obviously there would need to be dedicated international windows for the touring NH nations & TRC. The open sharing of players is vital as it will strengthen the Aussie clubs, which improves the overall standard of the league, but it also gives more NZ players exposure to professional rugby, which would add to their already incredible depth, plus it would improve the standard of Aussie players by playing alongside and being coached by NZ coaches. NZ would provide the playing depth, Aus would provide a much larger broadcast market. The league would have four timelines to schedule broadcasts. The league would in time generate enough revenue to pay players professionally, thereby reducing the financial burdens on the parent unions. Everybody wins.
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