Super Rugby 2024
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 i think the consensus is the guys that have gone overseas weren't good enough...they lost when they played too
I find its a different mentality over here, all about winning, not worried if its local players. you know the adage aussie and NZ are like big brother and little brother?...i find thats really one sided, we care about aussie...and theyre not worried about us at all...so a young aussie rugby player would happy look up to a NZ player if they played for their local team
Yep mate lived there for 20 odd years up to a couple of years back, but I didn't think the concensus over there was their best players went overseas, they pretty keen on them playing for Wallabies. I would bet most Aussies would want Skelton, Arnold, Kerevi, Korobite, Cooper etc playing in their teams, and that's who they should be getting back I think! Anyway, just my thoughts mate.
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@chchfanatic said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
You guys can say whatever you want about what happened on the field. Do you remember every decision right or wrong in every final in our seven titles. No of course not. Just like after we win the next three , no one will remember about these decisions in this final.
Keep your chins up boys.Haha, not after shafting world-class Cotter for relative journeyman Rob Penney they won't.
Better hope Goodman has a change of heart soon because with Razor & Scott Hansen gone the only coach with pedigree at rugby park is Taimati Ellison. Perrin and Marshall will struggle without Razor constantly papering over their deficiencies.
Last year in their maiden campaign as senior NPC coaches they lead Ta$man to their worst season in over a decade, only 4 wins, they were an utterly disorganized uncoordinated rabble all season.
History tells us that Razor has gotten the most out of some average staff, in addition to players, remember Brad Mooar? Razor is just so bloody good he tends to transcend these barriers...
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It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate. -
@Chris I also said the Crusaders would lose 4 so
@Chris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate.I wouldn't be so confident, based on Razor's history of lifting groups and leaving a god-sized hole with his departure.
Since Razor left Canterbury they have cycled through head coaches, backroom staff, and endured consistently middling performances - even in their good years they have never looked as decisive, convincing & ruthless as Razor's Canterbury did.
Equally notable is the fact Canterbury were performing poorly under Rob Penney until his 4th season (2008), the year Razor became his assistant, they won their first trophy that season & the following 3 with Razor a technical coach, forwards, defence and breakdown.
Based on the fact Penney has achieved poor results in every other role outside of Canterbury (U20's, Munster, NTT, Waratahs) I would suggest that Razor was a highly influential figure & can be at least partly attributed to Canterbury's run of success under Rob Penney.
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All speculation really,I trust Razor have left systems and people in place to carry on.
There are some good people still involved at the Crusaders from Angus Gardiner down,
I don’t think they are going to drop the ball going forward. -
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Oh I don’t ever remember saying we would win the next 3 years,Someone else said that,
i believe we will still be a good chance each year going forward.
It is only a matter of time before we lose one or two, we are just not going to fall off a cliff as some hope over the next few years. -
@Chris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate.I will in a grammar test.
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ok since kiwi_expat is the radical all out oracle and predicts the Crusaders will fall off a cliff, which team will lift it next? Not the Highlanders, Blues or Canes I suspect. And if it won't be the Chiefs, this 2023 finals thread will be nothing in comparison to the 2024 one.
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@Chris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Oh I don’t ever remember saying we would win the next 3 years,Someone else said that,
i believe we will still be a good chance each year going forward.
It is only a matter of time before we lose one or two, we are just not going to fall off a cliff as some hope over the next few years.I agree you will be a very good team. My question is whether Burke deserves to be discussed alongside Mehrtens, Carter, and Mo’unga. If he or Kemara rises to a somewhat similar level, you have championships coming or will challenge. If not, welcome to being like every other franchise waiting for a gold strike.
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@nostrildamus
Yep fair enough it was written in a rush.Not my best work. -
@gt12 said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I agree you will be a very good team. My question is whether Burke deserves to be discussed alongside Mehrtens, Carter, and Mo’unga. If he or Kemara rises to a somewhat similar level, you have championships coming or will challenge. If not, welcome to being like every other franchise waiting for a gold strike.
I don't think either will rise to Mounga status,But solid wins titles if you have quality around you.
2024 will be very interesting,It could be down to who adapts to the new coaching regimes the quickest.
Logically the Chiefs should have the inside running with no Coaching disruptions and The Crusaders as Penny will not change things at the Crusaders, he understands what works at the Crusaders.I am not convinced on Laidlaw as HC as yet.The Blues have not even announced a HC yet or what assistants are staying or coming in,The Canes also with their assistants.
It could be a really interesting watch next season.I lot to keep an eye on along with the next AB set up as well.
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I’m not writing you guys off at all, but I expect (hope?) you’ll come back to the pack with the loss of some of your incredible spine players. You have plenty of injured talent to come back though.
Just quietly, I think the Canes are in a great space. Cameron is now an experienced quality operator and has a halfback that complements his skills.
For us, it will really be about whether Lord steps up following the retirement of BBBR. I’m still not 100% sold on Vaii either, but if they go well our pack looks pretty dangerous.
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@gt12 on your Canes comment I think we still need to make a couple important signings at lock and hooker. Our starters seem pretty obvious if Blackwell moves on, but as the Crusaders showed you need to have depth in all areas because we know teams will have atleast a 20% injury rate throughout the year.
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@Chris are the Canes changing out all their assistants? I thought they just had to find a replacement for Chris Gibbes?
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@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@gt12 said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I agree you will be a very good team. My question is whether Burke deserves to be discussed alongside Mehrtens, Carter, and Mo’unga. If he or Kemara rises to a somewhat similar level, you have championships coming or will challenge. If not, welcome to being like every other franchise waiting for a gold strike.
I don't think either will rise to Mounga status,But solid wins titles if you have quality around you.
2024 will be very interesting,It could be down to who adapts to the new coaching regimes the quickest.
Logically the Chiefs should have the inside running with no Coaching disruptions and The Crusaders as Penny will not change things at the Crusaders, he understands what works at the Crusaders.I am not convinced on Laidlaw as HC as yet.The Blues have not even announced a HC yet or what assistants are staying or coming in,The Canes also with their assistants.
It could be a really interesting watch next season.I lot to keep an eye on along with the next AB set up as well.
I think the top and bottom of it, is the Chiefs should remain there or thereabouts, the Crusaders will probably take a slight stepback without Razor and Mo'unga (Not to mention Whitelock) which will mean by the law of averages they won't win it.
@Chris I think you underestimate just how good a coach Razor is. Look at Canterbury. Did 3 in 4, then they've only won one since. The guys is just amazing at squeezing the very best out of average players. Rob Penney might not be a bad coach, but he also isn't as good either. I'd go as far to say, the Crusaders wouldn't have won Super Rugby this year with any other guy in charge.
The Canes should continue to be of a similar standing, though losing Roigard (Seems 50/50 atm) would be a major dent. Still a big gap at lock as well, and no Ardie and Laidlaw finding his feet as a 15s coach means I expect them to be good, but probably not a title challenger.
The Blues except for their old props and Barrett aren't hit too badly. A little bit will depend on how Vern Cotter settles, and whether O'
Halloran or whichever attack coach they get can actually use tactics rather than vibes of give it to Telea/Rieko. They'll win the easy ones because of their backs, but the tight five remains extremely lightweight.The Highlanders are undergoing change, and in likelihood, it is the year before the year, but there are massive parallels to 2014. Depth in the forwards is a slight concern, but the starting pack is still very good, and good enough to challenge any side in a one-off game. With Millar stepping up to the plate at 10, PUJ finally filling the 13 void, and JRK joining the back three, really do think the Landers could push for 2nd in the conference behind the Chiefs. Whilst we have several new players, I also think we are far more stable, because A Smith is the only key cog we have lost (Frizell was crap so hardly a key cog).
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I think the Chiefs will be favourites, the Canes and Crusaders will be on level-pegging (due to key losses) and I think the Blues may drop a little compared to this year's squad.
I have the Canes up there because of the upward trend of guys like Mafileo, Numia, Flanders and Iose who in my view will offset Ardie's sabbatical. When you include guys that didn't feature this year i.e. Love, Perenara and for the most part Sullivan, we should be well placed to make the Semis at the very least. We should hopefully also shed guys like J Savea and Blackwell which will only increase performance. I expect us to challenge for the title next year, whereas I felt our squad was slightly too young this year.
Based on recent signings I think the Highlanders will improve on this year but they will ultimately be the fifth best NZ team.
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@Canes4life Think Savea and Coles are big losses though. Aumua hasn't been there, and Ardie is a difference maker in those tight games, which you guys need in the absence of big locks. Granted you have good props, and good loosies (all the Kiwi teams seem to have those) and some very good backs, but as I say, if you lose Roigard, I feel as though it might be a bit meh. Laidlaw is also a massively unknown quantity.
I think chances are all the NZ will be beating each other next year, which is ideal for the competition.
