Pick the next AB coach - two horse race
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@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
to connect & resonate with young players in the modern era that isn't enough anymore. The most important skillset of a head coach in 2023 has to be man-management first and foremost. Technical knowledge is secondary and is filled by the assistant coaches now.
Farrell and Razor are motivators & inspirational leaders of men, that is their primary role to empower, inspire, motivate.
They are front and center - in the media, cultivating the team culture inwardly and outwardly:Can we keep the satire, parody and hero-worship to the Foster/Robertson thread where it belongs? This thread has been good so far.
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@Nepia said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
I'm genuinely surprised by the number of votes Joseph is getting. Has he already had this many fans on here? If so they're been a fairly silent minority.
I think you can think of the Robertson / Foster thread as like our own mini twitter.
You've got a loud minority continually shouting whilst contrarians have given up on posting their points of view as can't be arsed with the bullshit anymore.
Twitter (Foster/Rob) is not representative of the general population. Never has been, never will be.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
to connect & resonate with young players in the modern era that isn't enough anymore. The most important skillset of a head coach in 2023 has to be man-management first and foremost. Technical knowledge is secondary and is filled by the assistant coaches now.
Farrell and Razor are motivators & inspirational leaders of men, that is their primary role to empower, inspire, motivate.
They are front and center - in the media, cultivating the team culture inwardly and outwardly:Can we keep the satire, parody and hero-worship to the Foster/Robertson thread where it belongs? This thread has been good so far.
I take your point, but this post is a looking forwards as to what they can offer, not anything else, so it is sitting in the right spot IMHO.
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@nzzp said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@ARHS said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
I am glad a proper panel is being set up to consider the options because the choice will reverberate through super level and below.
The whole structure needs attention. Super is no longer preparing players for Tests. We need to refocus on the quality of the rugby, the feeders and pathways, and how we develop and retain coaches and players.
100% this. Super rugby doesn't look close to what Ireland/France, the two best teams on the planet at the moment, are dishing out.
It's always been a bit more helter skeler, but now it's chalk and cheese.
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@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
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@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
I agree that Ireland's recent success has been built on a unified approach across their next tier down but in reality it is really only one or two teams that they need to work with and those teams also play among other comps as well for variety and testing.
Our problem is that if we 'control' the super sides we aren't developing coaches/ ideas/ introducing new skills etc and we become the very thing we currently complain about with noth having SA involved. One flavour.
It is a hard balance.
Sooner or later that Ireland style will be worked out or laws will change etc and they will have to adjust a big system rather than look within their own and see what they have that will work.
If rugby was still just a 'simple game' where the better skilled side would win we'd be in but currently complex training patterns on attack and defence are required. Ireland are like a finely tuned car that will conk out when a key component fails.
I do agree that we have player gaps that should be somehow filled through targeted development. Maybe a specialist NZR coaching unit to prepare rising players? -
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
I agree that Ireland's recent success has been built on a unified approach across their next tier down but in reality it is really only one or two teams that they need to work with and those teams also play among other comps as well for variety and testing.
Our problem is that if we 'control' the super sides we aren't developing coaches/ ideas/ introducing new skills etc and we become the very thing we currently complain about with noth having SA involved. One flavour.
It is a hard balance.
Sooner or later that Ireland style will be worked out or laws will change etc and they will have to adjust a big system rather than look within their own and see what they have that will work.
If rugby was still just a 'simple game' where the better skilled side would win we'd be in but currently complex training patterns on attack and defence are required. Ireland are like a finely tuned car that will conk out when a key component fails.
I do agree that we have player gaps that should be somehow filled through targeted development. Maybe a specialist NZR coaching unit to prepare rising players?Like IRANZ, but without the "I"?
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@Stargazer said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
I agree that Ireland's recent success has been built on a unified approach across their next tier down but in reality it is really only one or two teams that they need to work with and those teams also play among other comps as well for variety and testing.
Our problem is that if we 'control' the super sides we aren't developing coaches/ ideas/ introducing new skills etc and we become the very thing we currently complain about with noth having SA involved. One flavour.
It is a hard balance.
Sooner or later that Ireland style will be worked out or laws will change etc and they will have to adjust a big system rather than look within their own and see what they have that will work.
If rugby was still just a 'simple game' where the better skilled side would win we'd be in but currently complex training patterns on attack and defence are required. Ireland are like a finely tuned car that will conk out when a key component fails.
I do agree that we have player gaps that should be somehow filled through targeted development. Maybe a specialist NZR coaching unit to prepare rising players?Like IRANZ, but without the "I"?
Yes but with a planned focus on filling upcoming gaps where natural skills don't meet game needs
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@Crucial said in [Pick the next AB coach -
I do agree that we have player gaps that should be somehow filled through targeted development. Maybe a specialist NZR coaching unit to prepare rising players?
There is actually one Crucial, I listened to a talk with Steve Lancaster, and he spoke of it, they actually identify players at anywhere from 14-15yo, and follow through and then when they get a little older 17-18 (I think) they begin a little behind scenes work with them. Also from what I understand more importantly super academies do this exact thing, an idea I presonally like as it not everyone just getting same thing.
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@Stargazer not sure they are identifying gaps in the skill system, more identifying special talents.
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@taniwharugby Can't they do both at the same time?
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Either but Razor edges it if he has some experienced assistants. If MacDonald, Holland, etc, it seems the whole team would be on this massive learning curve.Well according to Chris' sources Vern Cotter has aligned with Razor as well.
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@kiwi_expat few more involved than that lot and McDonald won't b involved
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@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Stargazer not sure they are identifying gaps in the skill system, more identifying special talents.
Yep mate, they do identfy special talents and then try and improve all round skills etc, as we all know there not really any young fellas (or even super/test players) who coaches don't try and improve their wealnesses.
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@Stargazer those contracts are for exceptional individuals, rather than seeing issues in our game as a whole, like trying to upskill 10s in nz to be able to control a game or developing our props running game and soft skills, so I do think they are different.
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A bit late to the party but Razor any day.
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@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
I agree that Ireland's recent success has been built on a unified approach across their next tier down but in reality it is really only one or two teams that they need to work with and those teams also play among other comps as well for variety and testing.
Ireland have developed a considerably good process to encourage skillsets to take up residency or other eligibility. It's no surprise that Ireland's success coincides with the run of Leinster - these players are used to training and playing with each other. They also have the benefit of considerable financial investment.
If the talent was more broadly shared among the other three provinces, I'd wager they'd be less competitive than they currently are.
For NZR, the alignment from school -> academy -> SR - AB is there. The issue is what determines success at one level doesn't necessarily correlate with that at another. Skillset development is one thing, but adversity develops character and experience.
Perhaps a better rugby brain than mine can see considerable differentiation between and amongst SR sides, but to me it's awfully homogenous. And the rewards of a short athletic season with half of the teams simply making up numbers makes it clear that either the wrong players are being selected for Test rugby, or none of the players are developing their game to the necessary extent.
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@antipodean said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
For NZR, the alignment from school -> academy -> SR - AB is there. The issue is what determines success at one level doesn't necessarily correlate with that at another. Skillset development is one thing, but adversity develops character and experience.
Perhaps a better rugby brain than mine can see considerable differentiation between and amongst SR sides, but to me it's awfully homogenous. And the rewards of a short athletic season with half of the teams simply making up numbers makes it clear that either the wrong players are being selected for Test rugby, or none of the players are developing their game to the necessary extent.
A lot of focus on getting our best 15 players on the park, rather than picking specialists.
We've got props playing both sides, almost all the loosies seem to be interchangeable, as are most of the midfielders, and many of those guys have shifted from elsewhere. We've got wing/fullbacks and first five/fullbacks.
