Most valuable player in WC to team
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@nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.
It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level
Globetrotters rugby indeed
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In terms of ABs we really need the following to be fit and healthy at the business end:
Samisoni
Whitelock
Ardie
Smith
Jordie
Rieko
JordanIf those guys are fit and firing we are a great shout of winning the thing. If any of them get injured, our chances take a serious hit.
In terms of positions, I think the most important are 2, 9, 10 and 15. As when blokes wearing those shirts have a shocker it really hurts their team. We obviously have a pretty big problem at 10.
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@canefan said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.
It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level
Globetrotters rugby indeed
it's also seriously imbalanced. If you took what i would consider to be the 26 "elite" players in NZ, or those most likely penned in to an AB squad
The Blues and Crusaders have 8 each. The chiefs 4, Highlanders and Hurricanes 3 each. Throw in the general weakness of the Australian teams and you really only need to be good a couple of times a year to win the comp.
That's not breeding the right players. -
@nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.
It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level
Part of the problem these day is test rugby is centered around size and defense. A wet dream for the Walrus. You can't run teams off their feet like you used to be able to as the game is so stop-start now, and teams use their subs tactically so their big blokes are less likely to be exploited at the back end of the game. I think that's an area the ABs have struggled with the past couple of years, as we tend to try to weather the storm then run them ragged. I don't think any of that is good for rugby, and the officials should be seriously trying to speed the game up if only for player safety, but this is really a post for the 'State of the Game' thread.
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@mariner4life Amen mate, geez we miss the Saffa teams!
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@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.
It starts way before Super Rugby. College Rugby and the effect of TV showings blowing smoke up young fellas is a big part. You can add to that the loss of any sort of apprenticeship for 10s and the desire of coaches at school/club levels to put big munters at 12 to get go forward and ask the 10 to just be a shoveller.
10s need to learn how to control a game. How to kick for territory and to break teams down. Cast doubt in the opposition defensive plans etc.
Just like how a young cricketer will struggle to get noticed with a good openers technique, a young 10 that doesn't feed the ball constantly to the backs won't last long.
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@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@canefan said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.
It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level
Globetrotters rugby indeed
it's also seriously imbalanced. If you took what i would consider to be the 26 "elite" players in NZ, or those most likely penned in to an AB squad
The Blues and Crusaders have 8 each. The chiefs 4, Highlanders and Hurricanes 3 each. Throw in the general weakness of the Australian teams and you really only need to be good a couple of times a year to win the comp.
That's not breeding the right players.So it's what one considers the 26 elite players? That's seems awfully subjective. For the record I think Chiefs have a squad that is very capable of winning 2023, the Hurricanes as well, both sides have a lot of young talent hitting their athletic peak years. When you look at the age profile of those two squads they have so many talented players hitting 23/24/25 this season. I think Chiefs squad is as good as Blues and Crusaders.
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@kiwi_expat take your boring narrative back to the Derp thread please
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@mariner4life I beg to disagree. In finals footie, all the 10s need a 12.
In 2003 England without Mike Catt at 12 outside Wilko in their quarter versus Wales would have lost. At the same cup, Mauger calling for the missed pass didn't help Carlos escape the firing line in '03 either! Then in 2011 Nonu looked after Donald and was largely unheralded. -
@reddog said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
I beg to disagree. In finals footie, all the 10s need a 12.
what? no shit. They need a halfback and an openside and a fullback and like, other players too
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@KiwiMurph said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
Looking at MVPs for other countries
Aus - Kerevi
Eng - Farrell
Boks - Faf? Eben?Kerevi is Aus's best player, but they might be totally screwed without Quade given the other options at 10.
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@KiwiMurph Sexton for Ireland
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@MN5 said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
Hogg for Scotland.
Don’t know why I’m writing this, I’ll be flabbergasted if they make it out of the group stages to be honest.
I'd put Finn Russell ahead of Hogg these days on the importance to the team.
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@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@MN5 said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
Hogg for Scotland.
Don’t know why I’m writing this, I’ll be flabbergasted if they make it out of the group stages to be honest.
I'd put Finn Russell ahead of Hogg these days on the importance to the team.
Yeah but the coaches don’t.
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Ireland: J Sexton
France: Dupont
NZ: A Smith
SA: E Etzebeth
England: M Itoje
Australia: Q Cooper
Scotland: S Hogg
Argentina: J Montoya
Wales: D Biggar
