NPC 2023
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@Canes4life NPC isn’t Pro. It is semi-pro with the basic idea of compensating players rather than giving them a career wage.
Provinces also have controlled spending so should be looking for locals and supporting their clubs rather than trying to buy results.
If you need to fill a gap then fine but I agree that things should be within house as much as possible.
CM have consciously gone down that route and the local support has increased. It engages more local rugby folk.Especially big provinces with a big player pool like Wellington's. Small provinces like Manawatū don't have that luxury.
Quantity doesn’t always mean quality in every position though. The NPC is still a results based business at the end of the day so if a province needs to fill a gap they consider a weakness, then so be it.
The player pool in terms of NPC quality has also shrunk compared to what it used to be with competing global competitions also vying for NZ talent, so I would rather a player stay in NZ than go overseas if it meant him moving provinces for more opportunity.
@Stargazer Just look at Hawkes Bay rugby over recent years, they’ve propped up their squads with quite a number of fringe Wellington players in recent years, so you know full well that Wellington don’t also have access to the whole pool because smaller provinces like HB pick them up. It’s just the way it is.
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@Canes4life said in NPC 2023:
@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@Canes4life NPC isn’t Pro. It is semi-pro with the basic idea of compensating players rather than giving them a career wage.
Provinces also have controlled spending so should be looking for locals and supporting their clubs rather than trying to buy results.
If you need to fill a gap then fine but I agree that things should be within house as much as possible.
CM have consciously gone down that route and the local support has increased. It engages more local rugby folk.Especially big provinces with a big player pool like Wellington's. Small provinces like Manawatū don't have that luxury.
Quantity doesn’t always mean quality in every position though. The NPC is still a results based business at the end of the day so if a province needs to fill a gap they consider a weakness, then so be it.
The player pool in terms of NPC quality has also shrunk compared to what it used to be with competing global competitions also vying for NZ talent, so I would rather a player stay in NZ than go overseas if it meant him moving provinces for more opportunity.
@Stargazer Just look at Hawkes Bay rugby over recent years, they propped up their squads with quite a number of fringe Wellington players in recent years, so you know full well that Wellington don’t also have access to the whole pool because smaller provinces like HB pick them up. It’s just the way it is.
Very few Wellington players in the 2022 Magpies squad. Those would be Joe 'Apikotoa, who arrived in Hawke's Bay in 2018 after he hardly got game time for the Lions in previous years and Kienan Higgins, who couldn't crack the Lions at all.
Tiatia came to us via BOP and Nick Grigg via Japan, and before that Scotland, so don't count.Just in case you don't know, Joel Hintz and Sam Smith both are from Wairarapa, not Wellington.
What 'Apikotoa, Higgins, Hintz and Smith all have in common is that they had to play club rugby in Hawke's Bay first. They had to earn their contracts, competing for a spot with local players.Wellington has a very big player pool compared to small provinces like Manawatū (and Hawke's Bay) and what you were suggesting is going after top Manawatū talent (Tuputupu) that Manawatū needs itself. Smaller provinces also lose players to Europe and Japan. Hooker Siua Maile is a good example. Big provinces should join the queue at the back, not at the front, if it comes to contracting players from smaller provinces.
Edited to add that you're welcome to get all of Higgins, Smith, Tiatia and Grigg if Wellington wants them.
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@Canes4life said in NPC 2023:
@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@Canes4life NPC isn’t Pro. It is semi-pro with the basic idea of compensating players rather than giving them a career wage.
Provinces also have controlled spending so should be looking for locals and supporting their clubs rather than trying to buy results.
If you need to fill a gap then fine but I agree that things should be within house as much as possible.
CM have consciously gone down that route and the local support has increased. It engages more local rugby folk.Especially big provinces with a big player pool like Wellington's. Small provinces like Manawatū don't have that luxury.
Quantity doesn’t always mean quality in every position though. The NPC is still a results based business at the end of the day so if a province needs to fill a gap they consider a weakness, then so be it.
The player pool in terms of NPC quality has also shrunk compared to what it used to be with competing global competitions also vying for NZ talent, so I would rather a player stay in NZ than go overseas if it meant him moving provinces for more opportunity.
@Stargazer Just look at Hawkes Bay rugby over recent years, they propped up their squads with quite a number of fringe Wellington players in recent years, so you know full well that Wellington don’t also have access to the whole pool because smaller provinces like HB pick them up. It’s just the way it is.
Very few Wellington players in the 2022 Magpies squad. Those would be Joe 'Apikotoa, who arrived in Hawke's Bay in 2018 after he hardly got game time for the Lions in previous years and Kienan Higgins, who couldn't crack the Lions at all.
Tiatia came to us via BOP and Nick Grigg via Japan, and before that Scotland, so don't count.Just in case you don't know, Joel Hintz and Sam Smith both are from Wairarapa, not Wellington.
What 'Apikotoa, Higgins, Hintz and Smith all have in common is that they had to play club rugby in Hawke's Bay first. They had to earn their contracts, competing for a spot with local players.Wellington has a very big player pool compared to small provinces like Manawatū (and Hawke's Bay) and what you were suggesting is going after top Manawatū talent (Tuputupu) that Manawatū needs itself. Smaller provinces also lose players to Europe and Japan. Hooker Siua Maile is a good example. Big provinces should join the queue at the back, not at the front, if it comes to contracting players from smaller provinces.
Edited to add that you're welcome to get all of Higgins, Smith, Tiatia and Grigg if Wellington wants them.
Lol I’m not talking about just last year, but thanks for highlighting all the Wellington college based players that have been through Hawkes Bay recently. All those players have had one thing in common, they’ve all been fringe Lions players and have ended up at other provinces throughout their careers. It just proves my point that the second layer of talent at bigger provinces isn’t always there to pick from when injuries strike, therefore this whole point being made about picking within your province is kind of pointless when the talent isn’t always available / taken from smaller provinces and as a result the talent is diluted.
Do you think Waikato gave two shites about Southland when they grabbed Damian McKenzie for example? Nope. At the end of the day it’s business, small unions are happy to take players from bigger unions, so I have no qualms about bigger unions taking players from smaller unions if and when the need is there. Wellington have a need for a hooker next year if O’Reilly doesn’t come back, and Aumua/Coles (or both) are in the ABs next year. If they can’t find a hooker good enough in Wellington club rugby to fill a gap and there is a need to look elsewhere, then it’s fair game in my opinion. However, if Wellington have depth in numbers, then yes, they should be picking within their province.
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@Canes4life "All" those players? Again, only two players from Wellington in recent years that played in Wellington before they arrived in HB. Only one of them ('Apikotoa) played for Wellington (2nd/3rd stringer). Higgins was a 4th/5th stringer at best. And both of them left Wellington in search for better opportunities and had to play themselves into the Hawke's Bay squad via club rugby.
The others aren't from Wellington, or arrived in HB from somewhere else (they're comparable to Dom Bird, who arrived in Wellington from overseas, and before that from Canterbury, and not straight from Hawke's Bay).McKenzie wasn't grabbed out of Southland as he didn't attend secondary school there (Christ's College, Christchurch). He may still play for Southland one day - just like his brother.
Comparing Wellington chasing top talent from smaller provinces with smaller provinces signing leftovers from Wellington is comparing apples and oranges. I can imagine Wellington being unhappy about losing a player like Naitoa Ah Kuoi to BOP (I don't know the background of that move), but Manawatū (or Hawke's Bay) - who are in the same SR franchise area - don't have a single top player from Wellington in their squad.
I have no qualms about bigger unions taking players from smaller unions if and when the need is there. Wellington have a need for a hooker next year if O’Reilly doesn’t come back, and Aumua/Coles (or both) are in the ABs next year. If they can’t find a hooker good enough in Wellington club rugby to fill a gap and there is a need to look elsewhere, then it’s fair game in my opinion.
Arrogance, plain and simple. It would be different if players from small provinces took the initiative themselves and went looking for better opportunities somewhere else, but a big province actively going after them - as you would like them to do - while they're still playing in their home province (where they are needed as starters or reserves) is just unacceptable.
If Wellington has so few good players that are good enough as "depth" for the Lions, despite their much bigger player pool, they maybe should make a better effort of developing their young players. Smaller provinces have to do that, too, with the much smaller number of players they have (and often less money).
Anyway, this was about signing Tuputupu and it is a moot point now, with him being signed by Manawatū.
PS: It's good to know you won't be complaining about other provinces poaching Wellington top talent in the future, as it's all fair game aye?
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
I can imagine Wellington being unhappy about losing a player like Naitoa Ah Kuoi to BOP (I don't know the background of that move)
Especially when his father is a Vice President (and will be the President in the not too distant future) of the WRFU!
PS: It's good to know you won't be complaining about other provinces poaching Wellington top talent in the future, as it's all fair game aye?
I think they are miffed after losing the poached hooker (Tyrone Thompson) back to where they poached him from!
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Home matches for each of the 14 teams are as follows*:
2022 winners and Ranfurly Shield holders Wellington to host Hawke’s Bay, Counties Manukau, Southland, Ta$man and North Harbour
Auckland to host Manawatu, Canterbury, Northland, Hawke’s Bay and Waikato
Bay of Plenty to host Otago, Wellington, Waikato, Auckland and Ta$man
Canterbury to host Ta$man, Taranaki, Manawatu, Wellington and Southland
Counties Manukau to host Hawke’s Bay, Bay of Plenty, Southland, Manawatu and Canterbury
Hawke’s Bay to host Bay of Plenty, Otago, Waikato, North Harbour and Manawatu
Manawatu to host Northland, North Harbour, Taranaki, Southland and Wellington
North Harbour to host Auckland, Canterbury, Northland, Waikato and Otago
Northland to host Canterbury, Taranaki, Ta$man, Bay of Plenty and Hawke’s Bay
Otago to host Counties Manukau, Southland, Wellington, Taranaki and Northland
Southland to host Hawke’s Bay, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Northland and Auckland
Taranaki to host Auckland, North Harbour, Ta$man, Counties Manukau and Bay of Plenty
Ta$man to host Manawatu, North Harbour, Auckland, Otago and Counties Manukau
Waikato to host Otago, Wellington, Counties Manukau, Canterbury and Taranaki
*Home matches are listed in a random order, dates each match will be played will be confirmed in 2023.
Bunnings Warehouse NPC 2023 home matches announced
Bunnings Warehouse NPC home games have been announced for 2023, with each team to host five home matches across the season.
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@Bovidae It's based on rules laid down in the NZR Competitions Regulations Handbook. If they would deviate from that, it would be random and open to criticism of bias. It's not ideal, but at least no one can claim that one team is favoured by NZR over another.
The rules say that you play all the provinces in your own conference and 4 cross-over games.
Who is in your conference, is based on the seeding at the end of the previous season. How that seeding works is also laid down in the Handbook. For the provinces playing finals it is based on finals ranking; for all other teams it's based on conference ranking.
If I'm correct, this is the seeding at the end of the 2022 season:
1 Wellington
2 Canterbury
3 Bay of Plenty
4 Auckland
5 North Harbour
6 Waikato
7 Hawke's Bay
8 Northland
9 Otago
10 Ta$man
11 Counties Manukau
12 Taranaki
13 Southland
14 ManawatūSo, that means the 6 opponents of the own conference are known (odds and evens conferences).
The cross-over games are also based on rules in the Handbook, and have been the same for years, and ultimately come down to provinces picking an opponent for one home game and for one away game, in a pre-set order (which may mean they have no choice at all, if they are the last to pick).
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@Stargazer I was looking at the Waikato schedule and we don't play Ta$man next year, and didn't this year. Waikato would be seeded 5th, ahead of NH, so likely the explanation.
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Points after the round robin must be the first criteria.
Waikato 36
NH 32It's weird, because the Handbook says that when two Unions are tied and haven't played each other in the Round Robin the tiebreaker is:
- a. ii. The Premier Competition Union which has the higher points difference in the Round Robin will have the higher position (or seeding).
So higher points difference, not "most competition points" (words used in another tiebreaker).
North Harbour had a much better points difference than Waikato.
Edit: the consequence of them swapping (in my opinion) North Harbour and Waikato is that the conferences are exactly the same as at the beginning of the 2022 season. Only the cross-over games are different.
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Wellington also fail to play Auckland in a round robin game two years in a row. I get the concept, but I guess a downside for NZRU is that traditional clashes like this won't happen as often.
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/300763956/manawat-turbos-coach-appointment-imminent
Manawatū advertised for a new coach at the end of the season, receiving 26 applicants, which was cut to five people who were interviewed, and then a final three candidates.
The last three were going to be interviewed again at Hurricanes headquarters in Wellington on Wednesday. He would not say whether incumbent coach Peter Russell was among the final candidates or who the others were.
The union has in recent weeks announced the signings of some of its best young talent in prop Feleti Sae-Ta'ufo'ou, utility back Waqa Nalaga, flanker Elyjah Crosswell, hooker Raymond Tuputupu, first-five Isaiah Armstrong-Ravula, halfback Jordi Viljoen, centre Kyle Brown and prop Darius Mafile'o.
All are young but have potential and it keeps them in Manawatū.
WRFU Officers - WRFU
