WRWC Final - NZ Vs England
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@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Pretty odd England didn't take the 3 at the end and regroup. Arrogance eh...
I don't think that was the right move. Just running the numbers it's not the right move.
Assume she kicks it 80% of the time. Kicking 3 would only take it to extra time and (at best) a 50% chance to win*. That gives win equity of 40%.
On the other hand going for the line out drive had been very successful. Had to be a better than 40% chance they would score a try from the line out.
Going for the line was the correct play.
- if anything slightly lower because they looked out on their feet and might not have coped with another 20 minutes.
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Haven't followed or read the thread.
But...
FUCK YEAH! -
The ref allowed play to continue before going back to see Woodman. Yet when the English forward nosedived she stopped us as we were building our attack. That doesn't feel like consistency to me
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@Damo I don't think she would have missed from in front and wasn't there still time after that? England then just needed to hold the ball and work their way up the field as they'd just done fairly easily. I don't think NZ would have challenged any lineouts unless 5m out.
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@canefan said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
The ref allowed play to continue before going back to see Woodman. Yet when the English forward nosedived she stopped us as we were building our attack. That doesn't feel like consistency to me
We can safely say that the Cup was poorly refereed due to the decision to use only female refs. The ref of the final has been a pro ref for a couple of years and only ever reffed women's matches of any significance. The only female ref with any real experience is English, and has reffed premiership, and men's internationals, I think. So it was a PC decision ahead of its time - the refs were not ready and were really poor. Admittedly they were part of how fast the game was, they let all sorts of shit go, but it really wasn't good enough. Rucks were a free for all with hands on the deck, and many of the calls were a lottery. But you can't say any team got it worse than any other because it was so random.
It detracted for the knowledgable but maybe was the best call for the game. Non-rugby nerds had no idea and were happy with what they saw.
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@canefan said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
The ref allowed play to continue before going back to see Woodman. Yet when the English forward nosedived she stopped us as we were building our attack. That doesn't feel like consistency to me
DUSRUSPICT!
TBH the takeaway from this from World Rugby is ensuring they develop the women's game further, both playing AND refereeing.
I remember the first time I had a female ref was back in 2007 - have not had one since. In the Sydney area there are about 3 besides Amy Perrett who is in the ref management side of things now and no longer full time.
There isn't enough womens rugby to grow a really substantial crop of them, and things like starting a family affect womens rugby far more than mens.
But there needs to be some investment to get the ball rolling.
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@Bones What about a scrum option? They were just as effective, although the England forwards looked out on their feet tbf.
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@Jailbreak7 said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Bones What about a scrum option? They were just as effective, although the England forwards looked out on their feet tbf.
Yeah that would have been worse for them unless they got a shove on, because their forwards wouldn't have been able to get across the park and their backs weren't going anywhere. The only way they were going to get points was from the boot or a maul.
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@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Cocksedge kicks a 50:22!
The ABs with all their advantage with distance in a punt still have yet to record one.
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@antipodean said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
The Professor can wander off into the sunset with the greatest reputation. Well deserved.
If NZR want the women to continue to develop a legacy, investment in set piece and goal kicking would pay dividends.
And raid the netballers for some locks...
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Cocksedge kicks a 50:22!
The ABs with all their advantage with distance in a punt still have yet to record one.
Wrong thread. But I'd be interested to see where you read that.
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Don’t think we were winning that without the red card. Nevertheless well done. Fluhler is fantastic. DC was a great 10 but he is a shît goal kicking coach. We need to learn how to defend a maul.
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@Stargazer yeah I figured but now you've ruined what was going to be a fun exercise!
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I have been thinking about our kicking game, or lack of, and I think the way we played, which at times was sheer chaos, but seemed based solely on the natural instincts of the girls.and how they want to play.
Anyhow, the kicking, our gameplan was based around the fact we had next to no kicking game (distance wise) certainly not one to get ourselves far enough out of our 22 to negate thier maul, meaning they rolled the dice running it, all the time (dare I say how, junior rugby is played)
Sure this leads to some bizarre decisions and plays, but being that unpredictable makes it hard for the opposition too.
As I mentioned last week I think, the best thing about how they play, is they look like they are loving it, pure enjoyment, epitomised by the amazing Fluhler and Tui.
Anyway, that's my over analysis, over.
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@taniwharugby They want to get the Argie kicking coach in.
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@taniwharugby horses for courses too right? I think Wayne is probably a genius at unlocking handling and awareness in players, as well as the fact women's rugby is probably at mid to late 90's level men's rugby.
So get a team fit, overload on their ability to handle and support accurately and you have a recipe for success against big, lumbering defences.
That naturally leans on focus and determination in defence when the game goes long too. Communication is massive, when you're fucked, you're not communicating.
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That was one of the best rugby nights I've ever had. The crowd was awesome, so much spirit, urging the girls on when we were down and the joy each time we scored was amazing. I don't know where women's rugby in NZ goes from here, but that night will rest in the memories of those black fern players forever
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@taniwharugby said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
😅
His crowning achievement. Taking a broken dispirited team and turning them into world champions inside a year. Surely a knighthood beckons, Sir Wayne?
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@canefan inside a year you say... 😅
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@taniwharugby said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@canefan inside a year you say... 😅
Wasn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong
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So trying to find the highlights for this game is a nightmare. Any ideas?
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@taniwharugby said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@canefan inside a year you say... 😅
He was announced on 21st April 2022. Just over 6 months....
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@canefan yeah I was more meaning we have less than a year to some other WC...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Dan54 said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@canefan said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Watching the BFs win the RWC with CF Sr and mum, and CF Jr. Pretty special
Was actually watching it with Mrs Dan, and I have to say to see her dance around the floor in tears at end has given me much joy. She's only a little thing to but when she leapt into my arms I suddenly remembered how old I was, just about knocked me over! Really good stuff I think!
You must give us an update at some point...
Haha mate, nothing to update after I said I remembered how old I was getting!!
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@broughie said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
So trying to find the highlights for this game is a nightmare. Any ideas?
World Rugby have not been posting highlights to YouTube immediately after the game (and I assume have been blocking unions from doing the same) because they want you to go to their own website.
It's bullshit. The quality of the video resolution is poor and it's difficult to cast to a smart TV.
I hope they don't try the same shit next year.
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@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@taniwharugby horses for courses too right? I think Wayne is probably a genius at unlocking handling and awareness in players, as well as the fact women's rugby is probably at mid to late 90's level men's rugby.
England especially is very reminiscent of their own mid 90s men's team. Maybe they need old woodentop to introduce them to Total Rugby™
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@Billy-Tell said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Don’t think we were winning that without the red card. Nevertheless well done. Fluhler is fantastic. DC was a great 10 but he is a shît goal kicking coach. We need to learn how to defend a maul.
I think the game offered up some clear and obvious evidence to WR that mauls need to be brought back to having some form of contestability. England were so massively dominant in their own maul showing great organisation and power yet the same attributes offered nothing in defending them.
Mauls are just such an unbalanced part of the game. The primary playing option at many levels of rugby now is to get into a position to maul, such is the advantage offered in that facet.Of course the NH will cheer the 'beauty' of it because they don't want to dilute a strong part of how they play without seeing what an unbalanced, boring part of the game it is for spectators.
I was watching with a few non rugby geeks and they were all confused as to why the ball could be protected with players in front of it and defenders were unable to defend. It just looks all wrong.
I think there was even a penalty for collapsing a maul when the maul didn't even collapse but continued up field. One player was dragged to ground by one other player. In a ruck, that's a clearcut and is encouraged. In a maul it is a penalty. Go figure. -
@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Damo I don't think she would have missed from in front and wasn't there still time after that? England then just needed to hold the ball and work their way up the field as they'd just done fairly easily. I don't think NZ would have challenged any lineouts unless 5m out.
Pressure kick in the last moments of a RWC final is never a gimme. It wasn't from straight in front. I'd say 80% chance is fair.
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@MN5 covid made this RWC 2021
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Why would England opt to take a risk at extra time only to then have to get back to the same position again to score. It’s a non option.
First you have to make the kick or lose. Then you have to play yourself back into your scoring option position.
Extra time isn’t golden point either so NZ also get chances to score.
I can’t even see why this is an argument.Given that NZ competed at the first lineout it was obvious they would do so again so England did have to bank on taking the throw. If there was another option available it may have been a tap. NZ have shown vulnerability against one off runners close to the line. But, as others have said, a little knock on or a held up are more likely from that than from a maul.
If England had won from a lineout drive it would have been a real downer on the night. Not just because of the loss but because a celebration of the game and an intent to play free flowing entertaining rugby would have lost as well.
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