Blues 2023
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2023:
@KiwiMurph Yep, that is the same problem. As I said, the problem is not SR franchises losing players; it's small provinces losing players. Although arguably Harbour has a bigger player pool than Ta$man, I still don't like it.
IMO, as soon as SR Academy players are ready for the step up to NPC, their home provinces should have first pick, not one of the provinces of their SR franchise (if that's a different one) and especially not the bigger provinces of the main centres.
Shouldn't it be up to the player do decide where they want to live. A Hawke's Bay player in Christchurch studying. Being told he has to go home. Leave his flat and the like. Seems a bit unfairs.
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@SouthernMann Not being told; getting the opportunity. Now they don't get a choice at all. If you give the home province first pick, the player can play for his home province if he wants to. Not an unattractive choice if you have a chance to play in front of your family & friends for 3 months. Plenty of current SR players make exactly that choice every year already.
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Your wording was 'home province should have first pick.' Which inferred being told or forced. Players should have freedom of choice. If you want to play for a home province there is always the ability to do so. It takes some flexibility and planning from the parties involved. But there are plenty of 19/20 year olds who are champing at the bit to not have to live in their home towns.
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@Stargazer The Chiefs and Blues have always selected two teams to play each other so that will widen the talent identification if they are doing the same this year (minus the NZ reps).
Edit: Oct 7 wouldn't clash with the NZ Schools tests.
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2023:
The Blues have indeed poached HB halfback Joel Russell. Another local talent lost to the HB Academy!
Has he definitely left HB? As you know I'd rather he be with the Blues and HB than the Canes and HB.
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@Nepia I don't think Super Rugby Academy players usually have a choice to stay available for their home province, if that home province is in another SR franchise's catchment. Not a realistic one, anyway. I've never seen a player move to, say, Dunedin after leaving school and be part of the HB Academy. They always play their age grade rugby - and if they make it - NPC for Otago first. Same with players ending up at the Crusaders Academy, who'll end up playing U19s and NPC for Canterbury (or Ta$man) first. If they move back and play for their home province, it's usually after they have already played for another province. Think the likes of Caleb Makene, Gareth Evans or someone like Jack Goodhue. It would be nice if it was different for players ending up at the Blues Academy, but I don't expect it.
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2023:
@Nepia I don't think Super Rugby Academy players usually have a choice to stay available for their home province, if that home province is in another SR franchise's catchment. Not a realistic one, anyway. I've never seen a player move to, say, Dunedin after leaving school and be part of the HB Academy. They always play their age grade rugby - and if they make it - NPC for Otago first. Same with players ending up at the Crusaders Academy, who'll end up playing U19s and NPC for Canterbury (or Ta$man) first. If they move back and play for their home province, it's usually after they have already played for another province. Think the likes of Caleb Makene, Gareth Evans or someone like Jack Goodhue. It would be nice if it was different for players ending up at the Blues Academy, but I don't expect it.
That's a bummer, but it's partly our fault for not leaving the shit franchise like the Naki did (even though they were the favoured non Wellington province). Maybe we should try set up an agreement with the Highlanders.
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2023:
@Nepia I don't think Super Rugby Academy players usually have a choice to stay available for their home province, if that home province is in another SR franchise's catchment. Not a realistic one, anyway. I've never seen a player move to, say, Dunedin after leaving school and be part of the HB Academy. They always play their age grade rugby - and if they make it - NPC for Otago first. Same with players ending up at the Crusaders Academy, who'll end up playing U19s and NPC for Canterbury (or Ta$man) first. If they move back and play for their home province, it's usually after they have already played for another province. Think the likes of Caleb Makene, Gareth Evans or someone like Jack Goodhue. It would be nice if it was different for players ending up at the Blues Academy, but I don't expect it.
Southland currently has an active acadamey in Dunedin. Players play club rugby in Dunedin and return to Southland. Within franchise. But it is happening.
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2023:
@Nepia I don't think Super Rugby Academy players usually have a choice to stay available for their home province, if that home province is in another SR franchise's catchment. Not a realistic one, anyway. I've never seen a player move to, say, Dunedin after leaving school and be part of the HB Academy. They always play their age grade rugby - and if they make it - NPC for Otago first. Same with players ending up at the Crusaders Academy, who'll end up playing U19s and NPC for Canterbury (or Ta$man) first. If they move back and play for their home province, it's usually after they have already played for another province. Think the likes of Caleb Makene, Gareth Evans or someone like Jack Goodhue. It would be nice if it was different for players ending up at the Blues Academy, but I don't expect it.
I'm sure they have a choice, but if you are a young guy who has made the decision to transfer to a different Super Rugby region, the benefits of staying there year round with access to their coaches, facilities etc. as well as just general ease makes sense to me.
As you say, a lot of the players end up going back to home base eventually, it really just means that in theory, teams like Hawke's Bay should be slightly older/more stable.
I get the frustration, but you often talk about the Sullivan brothers. If they wanted to, they could come back and play for Hawke's Bay, I have no doubt, but Zarn in particular is settled in Auckland, plays for the Blues, has a girlfriend there, why upsticks for 15 weeks of the year?
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@frugby The Sullivan brothers are slightly different as they played their last few years of 1st XV rugby in Auckland, and the Chiefs lured Bailyn south to Hamilton. They played younger age grade rugby for HB. They are both regularly back in HB and I don't think it would bother them to temporarily move back to HB more than it does other players who regularly do the same. Remember we have over 20 SR players and the majority of them don't play for the Canes!
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2023:
@frugby The Sullivan brothers are slightly different as they played their last few years of 1st XV rugby in Auckland, and the Chiefs lured Bailyn south to Hamilton. They played younger age grade rugby for HB. They are both regularly back in HB and I don't think it would bother them to temporarily move back to HB more than it does other players who regularly do the same. Remember we have over 20 SR players and the majority of them don't play for the Canes!
Well if it doesn't bother them, why don't they? Don't forget also, with those 20 SR players, are lot of them are effectively the reverse situation to what we are talking about.
Just thinking about the Highlanders ones alone, MMT, Fakatava, Lowe, all of those boys were signed from the NPC, rather than as academy players. They were coming to Dunedin with the sole purpose of playing for the Highlanders, in a temporary sense.
For example, take Jordie Barrett when he briefly played for Canterbury. Yes he was down there to play rugby, but he was also studying at Lincoln, and living in Christchurch as a permanent base. This concept has been around since the NPC days... even pre-professionalism, when guys played for Otago because they were living there for University.
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