Super Rugby 2023
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 you're hearing from long term rugby people who do season passes falling away. Great that you still love it, but it's a stretch to call others sour
Understand that mate, and sourpuss remark was real tongue in cheek, I know people are dropping off and have always done so, it's not actually new. I have brothers who went to rep games, tests etc all the time during 70s and 80s, but kind of generally drifted away from game somewhat as it got more and more of it on tv. They made no bones, they still watch a bit, but they had done 50 years of following it pretty hard and just drifted off. They still watch a bit on tv etc, just not like they did way back. I have mates who did same with cricket, jsu drifted off game as life changed etc, mates in Aus had done same with NRL etc. Most sports are caught in the professional trap, they need a shit load on tv to pay bills, and so some get over it.
As I said I still go tp heaps, and find probably the most enjoyable stuff is where you go to local stuff and stand on sidelines, enjoy the game with other likeminded people. Also think to many get caught up on results and forget to enjoy game.
But that's just me and the likes of Stargazer probably, -
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
Super Rugby Pacific has just been locked in until 2030 so can't say anything changing anytime soon.
Drua have been a good addition but Highlanders have to improve and so do Reds and Tahs.
The comp has 3-4 squads (numbers wise) too many for quality across the board.
With no system of player distribution to even things out there will always be sides that are weak and sides that attract the best.
No different to many sports comps except the weakness is huddled together in one country. That has lead to the silly “finals” construction of too many teams being in the post round section.
During most of the season the interest only lies in the handful at the very top fighting for home advantage and, to a lesser extent the few on the fringe of being in the post season or not. -
@Crucial understand all thatCrucial, but I find all games inetersting, not just who is going to make finals etc. What I meant about we get too hung up on results. Hell if you saw some of the teams I have followed/supported over the years, you probably laugh at me. But that's what sport(especially rugby) is to me a place where I choose who I will support and away I go. It's like when my son left college many years ago and mates from 1st XV asked him if he was coming to club a few of them were going to, he just said no, my old man is Athletic ma and so will I be. Weren't a strong club at time, but was our family club!!
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial understand all thatCrucial, but I find all games inetersting, not just who is going to make finals etc. What I meant about we get too hung up on results. Hell if you saw some of the teams I have followed/supported over the years, you probably laugh at me. But that's what sport(especially rugby) is to me a place where I choose who I will support and away I go. It's like when my son left college many years ago and mates from 1st XV asked him if he was coming to club a few of them were going to, he just said no, my old man is Athletic ma and so will I be. Weren't a strong club at time, but was our family club!!
There are people like you, people that only want to ride the coat tails and claim some kind of personal achievement by supporting winners and plenty of others that fall in the middle.
Pro comps rely on all of these people to be sustainable. Hard core team fans, those that simply enjoy the code, the 'water cooler' supporters....
To capture as many as possible you still need a product that provides interest. Whether that is through individual player skills, performing teams, ladder positions, tribalism or whatever it is a hard sell when things are a foregone conclusion.
Look at our tipping comp. It's not that difficult to select the winners of the games. -
@Crucial you obviously haven't been watching my results mate!!
Don't get me wrong, I not saying things couldn't be better, just suggesting you will get people that drop off, I got a mate at golf club who says he doesn't keep up with rugby anymore, but basically because he can't afford Sky any longer.
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
They could also help by improving the scheduling. More day games, ditching the Super Round, byes more spread out, cut finals teams to 6 max and marquee matches more spread out.
If they were going to keep the super round then at least give it some thought, brisbane late in the season (so its not too hot) with a QLD v Tahs game as the final match of the weekend, make it a tradition and try and steal some of the State of Origin fever, or if it needs to stay in Melbourne then make it the first round and sneak in before the AFL starts
speaking locally they also need to engage with clubs in melbourne
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"super" round won't work in Super rugby because
half the fans live in another country (and travel is fuuuuck off expensive)
Super Rugby's 14 fans barely turn up to watch their team at home, let alone travel to another city to do it.You are pushing shit up hill to expect 30k people to watch the Force v Reds in Melbourne, or Rebels v Brumbies in Brisbane, let alone the Highlanders v the Blues
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
"super" round won't work in Super rugby because
half the fans live in another country (and travel is fuuuuck off expensive)
Super Rugby's 14 fans barely turn up to watch their team at home, let alone travel to another city to do it.You are pushing shit up hill to expect 30k people to watch the Force v Reds in Melbourne, or Rebels v Brumbies in Brisbane, let alone the Highlanders v the Blues
A Super Round could work if it was done properly.. which means not in Melbourne
However what I'm about to suggest won't happen because someone needs to compensate the teams that lose home matches. Currently the Victorian gov is paying a few hundred thousand for each team that loses a home match.
It's worth clarifying you aren't selling tickets to 6 matches. You're selling tickets to 3 events, each event is a double header (same as the current shitty Melbourne event)
Put it in an NZ city and make all the games trans-tasman matches. Auckland makes the most sense because there's a lot fans of other NZ teams that already live here (or within a short drive)
Day one you see the Highlanders and the Crusaders play other teams. Chiefs and Hurricanes day two. Then the local teams Pasifika and Blues on the third day
At minimum you'd get moderate crowds each day. Keep the ticket costs low plus a manageable 3 day pass. Have a beer and food trucks on Eden Park II
It won't happen because no one will compensate the lost home matches.. and NZ rugby fans will complain about any and everything so the event would be drowning in negativity months in advance
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@Duluth said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
"super" round won't work in Super rugby because
half the fans live in another country (and travel is fuuuuck off expensive)
Super Rugby's 14 fans barely turn up to watch their team at home, let alone travel to another city to do it.You are pushing shit up hill to expect 30k people to watch the Force v Reds in Melbourne, or Rebels v Brumbies in Brisbane, let alone the Highlanders v the Blues
A Super Round could work if it was done properly.. which means not in Melbourne
However what I'm about to suggest won't happen because someone needs to compensate the teams that lose home matches. Currently the Victorian gov is paying a few hundred thousand for each team that loses a home match.
It's worth clarifying you aren't selling tickets to 6 matches. You're selling tickets to 3 events, each event is a double header (same as the current shitty Melbourne event)
Put it in an NZ city and make all the games trans-tasman matches. Auckland makes the most sense because there's a lot fans of other NZ teams that already live here (or within a short drive)
Day one you see the Highlanders and the Crusaders play other teams. Chiefs and Hurricanes day two. Then the local teams Pasifika and Blues on the third day
At minimum you'd get moderate crowds each day. Keep the ticket costs low plus a manageable 3 day pass. Have a beer and food trucks on Eden Park II
It won't happen because no one will compensate the lost home matches.. and NZ rugby fans will complain about any and everything so the event would be drowning in negativity months in advance
...so...to summarise...just put some thought into it
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Western Force pull off major mid-season signings as Naisarani, Tizzano return west
The Western Force have bolstered their back-row, signing former Wallabies backrower Isi Naisarani and Carlo Tizzano.
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I didn't realise today was ANZAC Day. To think I missed the dawn service too.
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"Given the Waratahs’ position on the table and their good looking run home, Darren Coleman’s decision to rest three of his Test players against the Blues at Eden Park was a simple one."
"The Waratahs, Coleman and the players aren’t where you should aim your anger, that’s at the respective Unions – Rugby Australia and New Zealand Rugby."
"But both Unions are contributing to the frustration at the sprint that is Super Rugby."
"Compare Super Rugby to the French TOP 14, English Premiership and South Africa’s new partners in Europe, the United Rugby Championship, and the former premier domestic competition in the world is almost half the length."
"To enforce one to two week breaks, even in a World Cup year, is sheer lunacy for a competition needing star power."
"How many Australian sides will make the Super Rugby semi-finals?"
"The Brumbies are strong odds, but another? It would surprise greatly."
"It means around two thirds of the Wallabies’ cohort for the World Cup will have another two weeks of no rugby."
"While domestic powerhouse teams like Leinster have huge squad numbers, what use is it blooding emerging talents like Teddy Wilson and Jack Bowen when the Waratahs were lambs to the slaughter against the Blues."
"It’s a terrible look that not only harms the overall product but also short-changes the very people you’re trying to convince to walk through the gates."
The problem is that SRP is not run by an independent organisation whose focus is on making a strong competition. Rather, it is run by two, competing organisations that view it as a place to develop players for their test teams. That's what needs to change.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2023:
"Compare Super Rugby to the French TOP 14, English Premiership and South Africa’s new partners in Europe, the United Rugby Championship, and the former premier domestic competition in the world is almost half the length."
dont the NH teams have multiple comps running, through the year they end up with more games IIRC?
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when you have mandates to sit players during the year combined with a ridiculous structure where two thirds of the friggen comp make finals, the Waratahs made the only decision they should make. I don't blame them at all.
I have more ire for the Brumbies, that was sheer cowardice.
Super Rugby is preaseason but we are supposed to care enough to play fuck loads for it. Eat a dick administrators.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Well I opposite to you old sour pusses. I quite happily travel to a couple of super games a year, will keep doing it, I a member of Taranaki supporters etc, and u sually try and do a test!
I do understand like any sports some get a little tired of it after a few years, look at almost any sports, generally why the all looking to bring in new spectators.Nothing changed for me either. Still enjoy watching rugby as before, from 1st XV level to test rugby, with NPC being the pinnacle.
I also still remember how positive everyone was after the first few weeks of SRP, this year. How everyone enjoyed how the ball was in play more, less time wasting etc. That has been quickly forgotten. Why?
It certainly doesn't help shoehorning byes & rest weeks for players in a 4 month competition with a 14 game regular season, compare it to the NH club seasons and it's a joke. I'm incensed over it personally, I put a lot more energy into following and watching NZ sides and their players in Super Rugby than international rugby. I just want this competition to be as good as it deserves to be.
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"The key to it though... I believe it's going to take that separation of governance, so it's still national body-owned but run independently. That's going to be really important."
"We need competitive fixtures, so looking at the way we even the teams up will be vitally important. We desperately underspend in events and marketing, when you compare us to those other competitions."
"We need to sell the opportunity to our national bodies that, if they give us license and ability to do the things we need to do and investment into the competition, I genuinely believe we can get Super Rugby back to being the No.1 competition in the world."
"We can't think like we're just five clubs working through to NZR or five to Australia," he told Breakdown. "We've got to think of ourselves as a competition, and we've got to think about how to make our competition appealing to the public and the fan."
"That's moving away from our traditional roots of being a high performance-only sort of product."
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
when you have mandates to sit players during the year combined with a ridiculous structure where two thirds of the friggen comp make finals, the Waratahs made the only decision they should make. I don't blame them at all.
I have more ire for the Brumbies, that was sheer cowardice.
Super Rugby is preaseason but we are supposed to care enough to play fuck loads for it. Eat a dick administrators.
Obviously the first thing that needs happen is NZRU making players based in Australia still eligible for the All Blacks and vice-versa with the Wallabies. Could maybe work on a loan system like with UK football?
A guy like Riley Higgins isn't getting any playing time with the Canes this year. Imagine the benefit for young Aussie players that could learn in the NZ system for the first couple years of their professional careers, it would be massively beneficial for those guys.
All Blacks or fringe players playing in Australia helps both nations. You'd get way better engagement from NZ fans if say Brodie Rettalick was turning out for the Tahs, and the Aussie teams would be better as their biggest problem is depth from 23 onwards, and the All Blacks could cap the likes of Ekuasi if they suddenly start tearing up trees.
The Australia v NZ paradigm is the biggest constraint to the success of Super Rugby.
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Geez, the pieces of that broken record are becoming smaller and smaller.
Why would we trust the Aussies with the player management of our All Blacks?
Why would we leave the development of our own young players to the Aussies?
Why would we help develop young Aussie players?I'd hate seeing Retallick in a Tahs jersey.
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