Highlanders 2023
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@Stargazer agree to disagree
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@Stargazer said in Highlanders 2023:
@Kiwiwomble I can totally imagine him being disappointed with the crowds in NZ/Dunedin. It's spot on. Crowds here are disappointing compared to Europe where you regularly see full stadiums. In NZ, people rather watch from their couch. Unexpected? No. Disappointing. Totally!
of course the turn outs are shit, its just a pet peeve of mine, like someone the buys a house next to a bar of restaurant and complains about the noise...you want to play in front of big crowds....dont move to fucking dunedin
I think we can also learn from some of the english stadiums, half of them are less than 15k capacity and a few closer to 10k...rugby park in invercargill is 18k too big stadiums make poor crowds look ever worse
Was just about to point out those "sold out" stadiums are pretty small.
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@Nepia id love to know what we paid him, i would love to find out it was bugger all because he wanted some new experience and maybe put himself in the shop window for a japanese gig...but i have no idea. With banks and millar getting injured and and hunt being a bit shit we would have needed someone else...but someone local would have been better
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Good article from Irish Paul on southern sport as a whole, starting with the Highlanders. Roger Clark pretty much confirming what we all know, we are getting the second tier. Approaching all the players we should be and getting declined. Then signing players no one else wanted. Although pretty harsh on Nareki, and shows the desperation in signing Jonah Lowe.
"It’s been a grim run that has exposed their lack of game-changers and Clark is candid about their deficiencies. “You look at our backline at the moment, and most of our players wouldn't get picked in other teams – anyone in double digits anyway,” he says. “So, we've got a lot of work to do.”
This season was always going to be a slog. The next few years will be interesting, especially with prioritising home grown players.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/132022585/inside-the-struggles-of-sports-teams-in-the-south
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2023:
I was just reading that article too. There is an accompanying article specific to rugby which doesn't appear to be online.
It sits behind a payway, and so did an article I needed for work. So, now I've spent $45 on a Stuff subscription.
Highlanders provinces say success is sustainability, as Southland has a dig at Wellington
Southland rugby chief executive Steve Mitchell has loaded up on rugby development officers, increased player numbers, hired a director of rugby to look after all Southland sides not just the Stags, and would have been quite happy to stay in the now-dumped NPC Championship.
Those changes reflect the union’s shift of mindset, and the rare increase in participation rates – there will be a record number of teenage sides in Southland club rugby this year – points to the evolving role of provincial unions: forget about NPC titles, get boys and girls playing and balance the books.
“The NPC competition, the investment from the different PUs is not standard,” Mitchell said. “There's quite a bit of discrepancy and what's invested. There would be a challenge out there that the most expenditure leads to win.
“Wellington won the Ranfurly Shield and won the competition last year, but ended up with a $900,000 deficit. That's not sustainable. And that's what New Zealand Rugby challenged the provincial unions with about three years ago – to actually develop a sustainable delivery model.”
The Stags have struggled in the NPC over the past two years, winning just two games. But their high-performance budget is about $1 million – Auckland spent almost $5 million on commercial and high performance in 2022 – so that’s not surprising.
It’s also misleading in terms of the success of the Southland pathways. In the next few years, a group of eight Southland-born players – Ethan de Groot, Jack Taylor, Sean Withy, Will Stodart, Hayden Michaels, Cam Millar, Finn Hurley and Michael Manson – could all be in the Highlanders set-up.
Mitchell also points to this year’s strong Southland Boys’ High School team, which features two of Mils Muliaina’s nephews in the backline, Mika and Rico.
“There is a hell of a lot of more talent down here,” said Mitchell, who previously worked with Ta$man. “Now we're actually starting to service them a lot more effectively than we have in the previous 10 years.”
Otago chief executive Richard Kinley echoes many of Mitchell’s thoughts, particularly on the changing nature of provincial unions.
“We live a bit in both worlds,” he said. “A huge part of our business and focus is with our community game, working within their clubs and stakeholders to develop players, coaches, referees, and opportunities for people to participate.”
In fact, Kinley – who has been with Otago rugby for a 11 seasons – has a particular number etched into his brain. “When I started here, and I can still remember this, it was 7272,” he said in reference to the number of registered players in the union.
It currently sits around 8000, although no one in provincial rugby needs reminding about the challenges around participation.
“I wouldn't have said there's been huge growth, which considering the impact of COVID is acceptable, but it's certainly something that we're always looking to,” Kinley said.
“That would lead to more locally grown players coming through that pipeline and high performance.”
Otago have established a Country Academy to capture as much talent as possible, but like Southland, Kinley says the relationship with the Highlanders has improved in recent years and there are now more than a dozen players sitting in their respective academies who have already been earmarked for Super Rugby contracts.
In fact, Kinley is confident that Otago and Highlanders fans will soon start to see the fruits of that work.
“I'm actually genuinely excited about the Otago squad this year,” he said, citing youngsters Cam Millar, Oli Haig, Finn Hurley and halfbacks Nathan Hastie and James Arscott. “I think there's a balance that I haven't seen as much as I see this year and next year.
“We've got some really good experienced players retained, but we've got some exceptional talent coming through.”
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One of the problems the Highlanders have is that many of those young Otago players mentioned are actually from Southland so you are just redistributing talent from within the region, not attracting new talent. Obviously there are exceptions like Faleafaga and Asi, and a few others from the NI that have/are playing for the U20s.
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2023:
One of the problems the Highlanders have is that many of those young Otago players mentioned are actually from Southland so you are just redistributing talent from within the region, not attracting new talent. Obviously there are exceptions like Faleafaga and Asi, and a few others from the NI that have/are playing for the U20s.
Southland are understanding of that though. I just hope that both the provinces work together to ensure the best 50 players are playing provincial rugby. Not Otago having the best 45 and Southland struggling to get by. We are seeing this with Hayden Michaels and Jack Taylor, both from Southland, living in Dunedin and returning to play for Southland. I hope if the likes of some of the other better players from down there get stuck in the Otago logjam they are given the opportunity go back to Southland.
Broadly speaking, I don't think it matters where in the catchment the players are from. The key point is harnessing them and not losing them to elsewhere. Especially if good young talent from other parts of the country would rather play club rugby at home than play Super Rugby for the Highlanders.
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The way i see it, you have three main types of player
superstar - doesnt really matter the team he plays in, will regularly perform ie Smith
Local player - (otago, southland) may be a super start but if not then can rely a bit on having the same guys around him, greater than the sum kind of deal
cast off - someone not wanted by a team closer to home. problem with these guys if theyre not a super star (theyre probably not of they would be picked up by someone closer to home)...then they cant even fall back on playing with the same guys ie gregory, paeawe need to learn when signing squad fillers....we might just be better playing some young local talent
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also, credit where credit is due, that performance from burns is more what i was hoping to see, mixed kicking for territory with distribution well, the D was never 100% what he was going to do and so never fully committed which gave the back just a tiny bit more space
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@Kiwiwomble I think there's a fourth type of player: solid, dependable players who may not be superstarts but are also not (non-local) cast-offs. They are good to have in your squad. There are plenty of those in the Highlanders squad.
I'm convinced the main problem is the Highlanders' coaching. Better coaches would probably get more out of this squad than the current lot, even without many superstars. Obviously, they wouldn't be able to change the Landers into a champions team with this squad, but they'd get the Landers in the finals spots (middle of the table).
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i dont know about "plenty", i honestly dont know how maybe we have that would be playing for other super teams
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@Stargazer said in Highlanders 2023:
@Kiwiwomble I think there's a fourth type of player: solid, dependable players who may not be superstarts but are also not (non-local) cast-offs. They are good to have in your squad. There are plenty of those in the Highlanders squad.
You mean players of the likes of Richard Buckman? Spotted him at Whitmore Park on Saturday with family, but without his rugby boots. There is certainly not an ounce of fat on him and would qualify for the All Blacks Under 85kgs team when they get round to establishing one!
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I think the fourth player group is originally non-local youth developed. The young player we won the race for. The Fabian Holland, Faleafaga type player
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@SouthernMann when i said Local i didn;t mean born and bread, but people that play for otago or southland
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@SouthernMann I meant players like Fakatava, Renton, MMT, Makalio, Harmon, TU-J, Lowe, Garden-Bachop, Parkinson, Gilbert and Frizell. When they are in form, they're good (some great) players.
I really have the idea that the coaching staff doesn't get the best out of these players.
You also have to question what public comments by the Highlanders CEO (or whoever it was) about the squad do to players, mentally. If you read in the media that your CEO thinks his own players are average (or something in that vein), would that motivate players to play to their best ability?
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