Highlanders 2023
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
i would get rid of hunt before looking at Johnston, Lentjes and DLB, i think they all still great as off the bench options and i dont get people being down on CGB, he's hardly played but when he doesn he often scores, i have him in at 15 so gilbert can have a crack at qo and hunt to the bench
I'm just not sure if there is room for Lentjes
Haig
Michaels
Withy
Tu'u
Broughton
RentonI think Rogan Wingham is the future back up loosie to de Groot. While I wish we could get Abraham Pole back from Moana Pasifikia. If we could do that, those three would be the three looseheads.
I would like to keep CGB, may be at fullback would be his best position. Probably lacks the top end speed for a winger.
Problem with the squad is there are a lot of ok players; guys like CGB, Gilbert, Lowe, Timu, Hunt, Gregory all just ok. Good at their best, but generally ok.
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@SouthernMann thats fair if we think those guys natural successors are coming through, just felt it needed to be pointed out thats a bit different to Banks, paea, gregory who i cond even think are up to being bench players and Hunt who at best i think is out of his best position
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If you want a good prop who can play both at LH and TH, the Landers should go after Pouri Rakete-Stones. Considered the best scrummaging prop at the Canes by their scrum coach, and he may be interested in moving to a franchise where he gets more game time.
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considering our front row has been the best its been in years...there are definitely other areas we should possibly be focusing on
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@Stargazer said in Highlanders 2023:
If you want a good prop who can play both at LH and TH, the Landers should go after Pouri Rakete-Stones. Considered the best scrummaging prop at the Canes by their scrum coach, and he may be interested in moving to a franchise where he gets more game time.
I doubt he would be guaranteed any more game time at the Highlanders than we he gets at the Hurricanes.
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I do find it strange that Ayden Johnstone has been in the 23 so little this year. He's a good scrummager, and does his core roles well. The Highlanders are weaker on the TH side after Ainsley so would definitely need to strengthen there. Ma'u is still young but I haven't been that impressed.
In general, the forwards aren't the issue. It's from 10 out. Bring in Faleafaga ASAP.
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2023:
I do find it strange that Ayden Johnstone has been in the 23 so little this year. He's a good scrummager, and does his core roles well. The Highlanders are weaker on the TH side after Ainsley so would definitely need to strengthen there. Ma'u is still young but I haven't been that impressed.
It will be fascinating to see how Faleafaga does for the NZ U20s and then interesting to see how Otago balances the game time needs of him and Cam Millar. I tend to think Faleafaga has a high ceiling than Millar. But, Millar might be the right guy to close out a game.
In terms of tighthead, Luca Inch is also very talented and young. He will be back next year. Will be interesting to see the battle between him Ma'u for the back up role.
As you say, forwards aren't the problem. It is about cleaning out the backs and finding guys who will give the team the ability to break the game open.
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Where to go after that? Fact is, this squad isn't very good - which we all know is true deep down, but can't help but feel was still aren't maximising what we can get out of them.
The forwards are largely dominant every week... do we lack a bit of dynamic play and X-Factor perhaps, but it isn't really an issue.
Our attack in general is just diabolical. We run at men as opposed to going into gaps, and I'd have to put that at the feet of Whiffin. Part of the issue is certainly that Hunt runs across field which slows everything down, and takes up space, but again, it isn't Hunt's fault the coaches pick him - he is trying his best.
The Chiefs will take us to task next week, as will the Brumbies... after that, will we be able to pick ourselves up to beat the Reds and Rebels? I'd think this year five wins will be needed to make the 8, so will need to win both, and it may be for the best if we don't, because honestly, I'd rather finish 9th, than finish 8th and go through the pain of getting drilled by the Chiefs in a QF.
As for next season and beyond, it is all about recruitment. We can't necessarily just clean out, because players are needed to replace them. The mail is that the Highlanders are looking longer-term, hence why they went with Lowe on a three year deal, rather than others who only wanted to sign a one-year deal. I think Super Rugby sides have become a little too systematic, and it has almost reverted back to the original model, where guys come through the region and stay put (Though now through academies of Super sides rather than NPC feeders)... it is a hard work around for the Highlanders, but hopefully Kenny Lynn can at least spark the attack next year.
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I don’t even want to scrape into the finals…nothing gained by just getting a hiding the next week
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
Where to go after that? Fact is, this squad isn't very good - which we all know is true deep down, but can't help but feel was still aren't maximising what we can get out of them.
The forwards are largely dominant every week... do we lack a bit of dynamic play and X-Factor perhaps, but it isn't really an issue.
Our attack in general is just diabolical. We run at men as opposed to going into gaps, and I'd have to put that at the feet of Whiffin. Part of the issue is certainly that Hunt runs across field which slows everything down, and takes up space, but again, it isn't Hunt's fault the coaches pick him - he is trying his best.
The Chiefs will take us to task next week, as will the Brumbies... after that, will we be able to pick ourselves up to beat the Reds and Rebels? I'd think this year five wins will be needed to make the 8, so will need to win both, and it may be for the best if we don't, because honestly, I'd rather finish 9th, than finish 8th and go through the pain of getting drilled by the Chiefs in a QF.
As for next season and beyond, it is all about recruitment. We can't necessarily just clean out, because players are needed to replace them. The mail is that the Highlanders are looking longer-term, hence why they went with Lowe on a three year deal, rather than others who only wanted to sign a one-year deal. I think Super Rugby sides have become a little too systematic, and it has almost reverted back to the original model, where guys come through the region and stay put (Though now through academies of Super sides rather than NPC feeders)... it is a hard work around for the Highlanders, but hopefully Kenny Lynn can at least spark the attack next year.
Ngane Punivai, Josh Ioane, Manaaki Selby-Rickit, all shifted north recently & they aren't making the Chiefs 23.
there's guys at other teams who aren't getting minutes like Rivez Reihana, Corey Evans, Riley Higgins
meanwhile Mitch Hunt & Fetuli Paea are here starting every week.Must be something wrong with the culture if players are willing to move just to hold tackle bags at Chiefs.
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@kiwi_expat said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
Where to go after that? Fact is, this squad isn't very good - which we all know is true deep down, but can't help but feel was still aren't maximising what we can get out of them.
The forwards are largely dominant every week... do we lack a bit of dynamic play and X-Factor perhaps, but it isn't really an issue.
Our attack in general is just diabolical. We run at men as opposed to going into gaps, and I'd have to put that at the feet of Whiffin. Part of the issue is certainly that Hunt runs across field which slows everything down, and takes up space, but again, it isn't Hunt's fault the coaches pick him - he is trying his best.
The Chiefs will take us to task next week, as will the Brumbies... after that, will we be able to pick ourselves up to beat the Reds and Rebels? I'd think this year five wins will be needed to make the 8, so will need to win both, and it may be for the best if we don't, because honestly, I'd rather finish 9th, than finish 8th and go through the pain of getting drilled by the Chiefs in a QF.
As for next season and beyond, it is all about recruitment. We can't necessarily just clean out, because players are needed to replace them. The mail is that the Highlanders are looking longer-term, hence why they went with Lowe on a three year deal, rather than others who only wanted to sign a one-year deal. I think Super Rugby sides have become a little too systematic, and it has almost reverted back to the original model, where guys come through the region and stay put (Though now through academies of Super sides rather than NPC feeders)... it is a hard work around for the Highlanders, but hopefully Kenny Lynn can at least spark the attack next year.
Ngane Punivai, Josh Ioane, Manaaki Selby-Rickit all moved away & they aren't even making Chiefs 23.
there's guys at other teams who aren't getting minutes like Rivez Reihana, Corey Evans, Riley Higgins
meanwhile Mitch Hunt & Fetuli Paea are here starting every week.Must be something wrong with the culture if players are willing to move just to hold tackle bags at the Chiefs.
Sekby-Rickett and Punivai had off field issues to consider. Punivai with long covid and Selby-Rickett had already moved to BoP. So was closer to home with the Chiefs option. Josh Ioane was in a form slump and had been told he was behind Hunt in the pecking order. I wasn't too worried about the lose of those players. It is the inability to keep and identify players like George Bell, picking Arscott and Hastie over Noah Hotham and not getting ahead of the curve with Lio-Willie. Timoci Tavatavanawai also spent the best part of a season with the Highlanders, and has gone on to be a very good winger for MP. At the same time we signed Paea we could have gone after Aumua. But, he was peobably seen as being too risky due to his size. Josh Moorby should have been locked down. While we are starting a vottom up programme, there are classic examples of players we should have locked in to improve the results we are currently seeing.
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@SouthernMann Gatland also moved to Chiefs after being stuck behind Hunt - and ironically Ioane..
The Highlanders have essentially become a Chiefs' development team in the last couple of seasons.
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@Tim said in Highlanders 2023:
Renton is an interesting case. I suspected he was off contract. His form says he should get re-signed. I just don't think there is a loosie spot available for him next year, which is a shame.
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Time for conversations about Highlanders’ form
It is just a game but you can expect to sense a real edge around the Highlanders this week. Their playoff hopes are hanging by a thread, they are...
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@SouthernMann Unless I'm forgetting someone, Haig and Michaels are the only two new signings in the loose... and they'll replace Frizell and Lentjes?
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2023:
@kiwi_expat said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
Where to go after that? Fact is, this squad isn't very good - which we all know is true deep down, but can't help but feel was still aren't maximising what we can get out of them.
The forwards are largely dominant every week... do we lack a bit of dynamic play and X-Factor perhaps, but it isn't really an issue.
Our attack in general is just diabolical. We run at men as opposed to going into gaps, and I'd have to put that at the feet of Whiffin. Part of the issue is certainly that Hunt runs across field which slows everything down, and takes up space, but again, it isn't Hunt's fault the coaches pick him - he is trying his best.
The Chiefs will take us to task next week, as will the Brumbies... after that, will we be able to pick ourselves up to beat the Reds and Rebels? I'd think this year five wins will be needed to make the 8, so will need to win both, and it may be for the best if we don't, because honestly, I'd rather finish 9th, than finish 8th and go through the pain of getting drilled by the Chiefs in a QF.
As for next season and beyond, it is all about recruitment. We can't necessarily just clean out, because players are needed to replace them. The mail is that the Highlanders are looking longer-term, hence why they went with Lowe on a three year deal, rather than others who only wanted to sign a one-year deal. I think Super Rugby sides have become a little too systematic, and it has almost reverted back to the original model, where guys come through the region and stay put (Though now through academies of Super sides rather than NPC feeders)... it is a hard work around for the Highlanders, but hopefully Kenny Lynn can at least spark the attack next year.
Ngane Punivai, Josh Ioane, Manaaki Selby-Rickit all moved away & they aren't even making Chiefs 23.
there's guys at other teams who aren't getting minutes like Rivez Reihana, Corey Evans, Riley Higgins
meanwhile Mitch Hunt & Fetuli Paea are here starting every week.Must be something wrong with the culture if players are willing to move just to hold tackle bags at the Chiefs.
Sekby-Rickett and Punivai had off field issues to consider. Punivai with long covid and Selby-Rickett had already moved to BoP. So was closer to home with the Chiefs option. Josh Ioane was in a form slump and had been told he was behind Hunt in the pecking order. I wasn't too worried about the lose of those players. It is the inability to keep and identify players like George Bell, picking Arscott and Hastie over Noah Hotham and not getting ahead of the curve with Lio-Willie. Timoci Tavatavanawai also spent the best part of a season with the Highlanders, and has gone on to be a very good winger for MP. At the same time we signed Paea we could have gone after Aumua. But, he was peobably seen as being too risky due to his size. Josh Moorby should have been locked down. While we are starting a vottom up programme, there are classic examples of players we should have locked in to improve the results we are currently seeing.
All largely good points, but I am a strong believer that the Highlanders big issue is not having a first five. Just as there is a good first five behind every good team, there is a poor one behind every poor team. Look at the Blues prior to Barrett, the Chiefs prior to DMac stepping up... even the Canes prior to getting Cameron this season.
No coincidence the best game the Highlanders have played in the last two years was when Gilbert ran the cutter, showing a threat to the line whilst also possessing a good kicking game. Will be a fascinating selection this week, I suspect they'll go Gilbert and TUJ in the midfield, with Burns at 10 and CGB at 15 - who was very good last week.
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I would actually say that it's time for conversations about Highlanders management.
Highlanders/Otago face some challenges that the other franchises don't and that requires some clever thinking rather than finger crossing.
Dunedin is a small place. Way smaller than other Super Franchise cities. The University environment has changed and farming in the province relies on its' youngsters getting degrees from other places in order to get finance (farming can be extremely technical these days).
The pathways from the province are difficult given terrain and travel.
These aren't excuses, they are facts that all point to the Landers being extremely lucky if they find players from within their boundries meaning that they need to attract from outside.
The obvious attraction would be success and the rewards that come with it but that has to be built.
My question is what the Highlanders/Otago management are doing about that recruitment? Are there joint ventures with local business people to top up salaries? If there is money and interest in places like Queenstown then tap into it. The Rod Drury's and Peter Theils of the area are happy to support local ventures. Why haven't the Landers found patrons like them?
That would help monetarily.
The 'zoo' is an excellent idea that has provided some atmosphere at the games but what is going to get punters in from further afield?
Is the development/ academy programme respected enough? If not, why not? -
@Crucial said in Highlanders 2023:
I would actually say that it's time for conversations about Highlanders management.
Highlanders/Otago face some challenges that the other franchises don't and that requires some clever thinking rather than finger crossing.
Dunedin is a small place. Way smaller than other Super Franchise cities. The University environment has changed and farming in the province relies on its' youngsters getting degrees from other places in order to get finance (farming can be extremely technical these days).
The pathways from the province are difficult given terrain and travel.
These aren't excuses, they are facts that all point to the Landers being extremely lucky if they find players from within their boundries meaning that they need to attract from outside.
The obvious attraction would be success and the rewards that come with it but that has to be built.
My question is what the Highlanders/Otago management are doing about that recruitment? Are there joint ventures with local business people to top up salaries? If there is money and interest in places like Queenstown then tap into it. The Rod Drury's and Peter Theils of the area are happy to support local ventures. Why haven't the Landers found patrons like them?
That would help monetarily.
The 'zoo' is an excellent idea that has provided some atmosphere at the games but what is going to get punters in from further afield?
Is the development/ academy programme respected enough? If not, why not?These things take time to fix... money isn't the issue, the Highlanders have heaps of it, and throwing money at players isn't generally a great fix, (2013 anyone) need players buying into a vision.
No doubt Landers effed up recruitment after losing 15 in 2019, and still paying the price. Squad will naturally get better over 24' and 25' because we do have a good core of young players, and hopefully that convinces some players to head down for guaranteed game time in problem positions... namely centre and wing.
All going well Millar and Faleafaga will be good 10 options, because both have the potential to play test rugby...
