Magpies 2022
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@Rugby3 We have ben raped and plundered of talent for many years, looking at you Otago and, to a lesser extent, Waikato and Wellington. Since the advent of more "professionalism" we have ben able to hold onto a far larger percentage of local guys than we did during the days when we had two teams playing NPC, HB in the Second Division playing in the traditional black and white hoops and HB B in the First Division playing in blue with gold trim.
We are not exactly squeaky clean ourselves these days with a number of players turning out for us that could not really crack it in places like Auckland and Canterbury (during the time of Mr. Phillpot). We even had a number from wellington like Cory Jane and a prop (a Tongan guy that sometimes called at my flat in Lyall Bay as I had another rugby player boarding with me that he knew) whose name escapes me now. And then there were others like Joe Apikatoa and Joel Hintz (via Otago after not making it in Wgtn), Kienan Higgins, and the likes of that hooker (from Hutt Old Boys - either Doug Power or James O'Reilly?) that came up and never made it a couple of years back. Don't get me started on Marvan Karawana either!
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@Higgins said in Magpies 2022:
@Rugby3 We have ben raped and plundered of talent for many years, looking at you Otago and, to a lesser extent, Waikato and Wellington. Since the advent of more "professionalism" we have ben able to hold onto a far larger percentage of local guys than we did during the days when we had two teams playing NPC, HB in the Second Division playing in the traditional black and white hoops and HB B in the First Division playing in blue with gold trim.
We are not exactly squeaky clean ourselves these days with a number of players turning out for us that could not really crack it in places like Auckland and Canterbury (during the time of Mr. Phillpot). We even had a number from wellington like Cory Jane and a prop (a Tongan guy that sometimes called at my flat in Lyall Bay as I had another rugby player boarding with me that he knew) whose name escapes me now. And then there were others like Joe Apikatoa and Joel Hintz (via Otago after not making it in Wgtn), Kienan Higgins, and the likes of that hooker (from Hutt Old Boys - either Doug Power or James O'Reilly?) that came up and never made it a couple of years back. Don't get me started on Marvan Karawana either!
The difference is that other provinces have taken HB players who would/could have cracked the Magpies and get game time. We didn't plunder other provinces to sign most of the players you mention. Most of them were discards; or from Wairarapa, not Wellington. They couldn't crack the squad of their home/first NPC province or did get very little game time (that also applies to recent additions Grigg way back, and Sam Smith). Tiatia is a clear exception. Cory Jane may be an exception, I don't remember how he ended up in the Magpies squad, but at least he attended Te Aute.
Another question is whether we really need those discards. I also don't know why we signed Tiatia, other than that the coach knows him from way back (just like Sam Smith and Nick Grigg). I hope it's only for this year. Kienan Higgins is just squad filler; I'm sure we have good locals for that role, esp in the current academy crop.
The Tongan prop, do you mean Tolu Fahamokioa, who now plays for Wai-Bush? Hintz came to us via Canterbury. And the hooker was Ben Power.
Anyway, current examples of players lost to other provinces (there are more) are obviously the Sullivan brothers and Dominic Bird (Wellington can keep him), but also young school leavers like Julian Goerke (Manawatū), Lattrell Smiler-Ah Kiong (Waikato) and the very promising halfback Treya Kingi-Taukamo, who left Napier Boys for King's College, went back to the Bay and then got poached by Wellington. He got injured and missed out on the Hurricanes U20s in 2021, and hasn't been heard of since. Didn't play club rugby in Wellington or the Bay, so no idea what he's up to.
There was also Ethyn Martin, who somehow ended up in the Queensland Reds academy and is still there. Not even mentioning losing Leo Thompson to league, which I still think is one of the greatest losses from the Bay in recent years. The most recent example is Afa Moleli (Auckland).
Goerke - and I think also Moleli - are attending Uni, which obviously they can't do in the Bay, although Gimblett and Fabish found a way to both attend Uni, play local club rugby, and still stay in the HB academy.
I'm sure I missed several more recent names.
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@Stargazer said in Magpies 2022:
The Tongan prop, do you mean Tolu Fahamokioa, who now plays for Wai-Bush?
No not him, although he was another that periodically visited my flat, this time in Hataitai, as he was friends with another rugby player I had boarding with me. How do you think he ended up at Napier Tech?!!!! The name I am looking for will come to me unexpectedly but think he might have been a Norths player from memory.
Re Cory Jane, I have a very vague recollection that his father may have played some club rugby up here in the Bay at one stage.I also think that some other provinces also suffer from local talent leaving for various reasons so it is not just HB. I(t just so happens that our losses tend to have bigger profiles. Admittedly some of the Auckland departures are not exactly local Aucklanders anyway, Baylin Sullivan being case in point.
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@Stargazer Got him - Anthony Perenise - but a bit wrong, fancy confusing a Samoan for a Tongan, utterly unforgiveable.....................................
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What really bugs me is that Folau Fakatava has not been released more to the Magpies, while other players unused by the ABs have played for their province. It would have been great if Fakatava had played for us in our last Shield defence. Instead, he was sitting in the stands. He wasn't even in Australia, last Saturday.
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@Stargazer said in Magpies 2022:
Cory Jane may be an exception, I don't remember how he ended up in the Magpies squad, but at least he attended Te Aute.
Missed this discussion earlier - I don't think Jane went to TA. He was a loan player to the Magpies as he was struggling to crack Welly at the time (we were 2nd division). Essentially his entire AB career can be traced back to the Magpies reinvigorating his XVs career.
@Higgins His old man is from Wairoa.
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@Toddy said in Magpies 2022:
Jane went to Heretaunga College. Lead them to win the Div 2 cup in his final year.
I don't recall any talk of him being captain at HC. But yes, lead them in so far as being their best player.
Even then the story was that it was hard to get noticed or selected from outside of the big schools but there was more chance then than there is now.
I think CJ was selected for a Wellington XV or development side but the interest shown wasn't enough to keep him from going to HB to get a chance.Going back about 10 years now but I was involved with the game at HC and experienced first hand the so called selection days for higher teams. There were kids from the big schools selected on size and running over those from lower division schools with quality skills. Some of the former didn't even have catch/pass skills.
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@Stargazer said in Magpies 2022:
Anyway, back on topic. If Fakatava doesn't play for the ABs this weekend, I'll be really pissed off if he doesn't get to play for the Magpies. I mean, what's the point of him just watching a game, instead of playing?
TBH, they always need 3 halfbacks ready to go in case of a late injury. So I can see why he wasn't available last Thursday and again this weekend.
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@Nepia Regardless of whether he played or not our guys should still have been good enough to comfortably dispose of Wellington. What we did not factor into account was Wellington playing miles above the standard they have done all season.
To look at whether their No 8 joined the ruck from in front of the hindmost foot when they got their try and whether their No 7 was on his feet when the penalty was awarded that they scored their first points from and whether the referee should have allowed the quick tap from that last penalty that was taken and our player through to almost the goal line before he blew it back would probably be seen as sour grapes (even if the replays, which I have not seen, vindicate my impressions seen at the ground) as overall we have to concede that the end result, however hard it is still to take, was a fair indication of the match. -
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@Higgins said in Magpies 2022:
@Nepia Regardless of whether he played or not our guys should still have been good enough to comfortably dispose of Wellington. What we did not factor into account was Wellington playing miles above the standard they have done all season.
To look at whether their No 8 joined the ruck from in front of the hindmost foot when they got their try and whether their No 7 was on his feet when the penalty was awarded that they scored their first points from and whether the referee should have allowed the quick tap from that last penalty that was taken and our player through to almost the goal line before he blew it back would probably be seen as sour grapes (even if the replays, which I have not seen, vindicate my impressions seen at the ground) as overall we have to concede that the end result, however hard it is still to take, was a fair indication of the matchI had successfully managed to banish this match from my brain ... until now.
We had a very off day, they had an on day, the reffing was all over the show as usual we had Tiatia. But yeah the Wellington players deserved the win.
